Making a Scroll Jig

[Francis Trez Cole]

this is a great tool for laying out a scroll using the golden rectangle there is a pdf with a set of measured drawing of the proper size parts for the project. http://www.woodworkingformeremortals.com/2011/03/phi-and-golden-rectangle.html

 

One important thing to remember when laying out a scrolling Jig you have to account for the metal you are using to make the scroll other wise you are wrapping it around the out side if your drawing that can make the scrolls that you are make off. The best way is to make one scroll to the proportions you want and then make the jig to fit in it. It is more work but you will see a differences 

[Rick Barter]

I am going to try something.  I agree with Frank.  All this formulaic nonsense is really just spitting into the wind when it comes time to make something.  I need to make some scrolls for a job.  I need them to be 15" to 18".  We're blacksmithing here.  We aren't building an aircraft.

 

Here's how I started.  I got a piece of soapstone and stood at my crappy, little welding table and drew out a scroll about that size.  How did I know it was that size?  I guessed!  You develop your eye after you make stuff for awhile.  I put a tape measure up to my freehand scroll and voila!  It was about 20".  No problem.  I just don't need to make them as big.  So I took my hand and erased some of the soapstone line.   :D

 

 

Next, I took some mason line and "traced" my soapstone mark.  I then stretched my mason line out and measured with my tape.  I found that to make about an 18" scroll I need about 5' of steel.  Boom!  Now I know about how much stock to use to get what I want.

 

Now I have to fire up the forge, heat up some steel, and freehand a scroll to "match" my soapstone drawing.  To quote Randy McDaniel, 'How are you going to make a scroll jig if you can't make a scroll freehand'?  It takes practice.  It takes pain.  It takes suffering.  It takes diligence.  It takes perseverance!

 

I will update you as I proceed.  I need to get an estimate together because I need to price out how I will make 8 of these bad boys for a local ornamental iron shop.  Stay tuned!

 

[PeteH]

Somewhat off-topic, but someone offered the idea that a modern man would have a hard time surviving in previous ages...

 

Read "Lest Darkness Fall" (and the sequel "To Bring the LIght") by L. Sprague deCamp.  Good reads, and I think as problem-solvers and technology-savvy people, you -- or many of you, I'm not going to speak for everyone -- would enjoy them.

[Rick Barter]

[ BEWARE: This is a bit long, but I said I would update everyone when I started and I think it may be of value to others ]

 

OK.  I got the steel from the ornamental iron company and started work today on the scroll jig.  Full Discloser...  it did not work as I planned (whenever you get cocky, the gods make you pay)!

 

But, do not fear, True Believer!  Where there's a will there's a way.  It may be kind of a goofy way, but I have to get this stuff done and get the dough-re-mi (pun intended).

 

Leave it to me to completely underestimate just how much effort it takes to forge 1/4" x 2-1/2" stock into a graceful scroll of 15" - 18".  And, by the way, the stock I need to scroll is 3/8" x 2"!  So, my scroll jig started to get all out of whack while forging it.  And, having learned it's unwise to throw a fit, I backed off, took a breath and analyzed the situation.

 

The beginning of my scroll jig was nice.  So, I cut it off and put it aside.  Then I set about to make the larger portion of my jig.  I did it and marked where the first jig left off and the second jig took over.  Then I grabbed a test piece (5/16" x 3/4" I think).  It worked pretty well except I didn't have vice grips handy to clamp the start of the scroll to the jig.  I got some vice grips and carried on with work.  Heating, clamping, bending with scroll fork.  It worked out ok.  So, I bravely grabbed a 5' piece of my 3/8" x 2" stock (they gave me just enough for the job   :o) and started heating in the coal forge.

 

I tapered the stock a little and then was ready to start my scroll.  I am doing them freehand on the anvil to start and then going to the jig.  I pu the piece in the jig and bent it around.  Great!  This is easy (I'm sure you all know what's coming)!  So I go back into the fire for another heat.  I come out, clamp the stock to the jig and start bending around with my body and my scroll fork.  Nice! it's coming along just fine.  Except I got a little impatient and decided to see what would happen if I did some cold and tried to get more bang for my buck.  BAD IDEA!  I got a kink.  So i had to stop, heat it back up, hammer out the kink as best I could, and go again.  I wound up getting it squared away for the most part, but I still see it a little and may go back and tweak it with the torch and the scroll wrench.

 

Now it's time to go to the second operation: larger jig.

 

So I heat up the piece and am disappointed that I can only get about 6" or 8" of a heat on the piece.  But I go slow and just do a little at a time.  Patience is something I am continually trying to learn (I've had mixed success).  It came out ok.  I don't love it, but it's a scroll.  It's 16" or so and I've sent a picture to the ironwork company for which I'm working.  We'll see what they think.  If they're happy, I'll make the rest and live to fight another day.  If not, it's back to the anvil.  I have learned a lot about what doesn't work.  I have a lot to learn.  But, isn't that always the way?  That's why I am taking Frank Turley's class this year.  The important thing is to DO.  I find I don't learn a darn thing unless I'm DOING IT.  Every time I do something, I improve.  I'm no Francis Whitaker.  I am, however, striving to get better.  Anyway, I figured my experience might help others.

 

So, here's what I learned:

 

1.) Bite off more than you can chew.  It's the only way you'll grow.

2.) Make sure you use the heat you have.  Don't try and bend a little bit further cold.  Even heat (or non-heat) is best.

3.) You can only heat up so much at a time.  I need to learn how to heat up more of my bar or just refer to #2 above.

4.) I need to learn to use a coal forge better or build a permanent one with a chimney insid!.  I was buried in smoke because I have to forge outside and have no chimney to get the smoke out of my face.

5.) I need to make better fire tools and get more training.  I have a LOT of questions.

 

Thanks, everyone for reading this.  I hope it wasn't too boring.

 

P.S. - If anyone wants to share the best way to heat and make large scrolls, I'm all ears!!!

 

 

 

I am going to try something.  I agree with Frank.  All this formulaic nonsense is really just spitting into the wind when it comes time to make something.  I need to make some scrolls for a job.  I need them to be 15" to 18".  We're blacksmithing here.  We aren't building aAn aircraft.

 

Here's how I started.  I got a piece of soapstone and stood at my crappy, little welding table and drew out a scroll about that size.  How did I know it was that size?  I guessed!  You develop your eye after you make stuff for awhile.  I put a tape measure up to my freehand scroll and voila!  It was about 20".  No problem.  I just don't need to make them as big.  So I took my hand and erased some of the soapstone line.   :D

 

IMG_1562.jpg

IMG_1563.jpg

 

Next, I took some mason line and "traced" my soapstone mark.  I then stretched my mason line out and measured with my tape.  I found that to make about an 18" scroll I need about 5' of steel.  Boom!  Now I know about how much stock to use to get what I want.

 

Now I have to fire up the forge, heat up some steel, and freehand a scroll to "match" my soapstone drawing.  To quote Randy McDaniel, 'How are you going to make a scroll jig if you can't make a scroll freehand'?  It takes practice.  It takes pain.  It takes suffering.  It takes diligence.  It takes perseverance!

 

I will update you as I proceed.  I need to get an estimate together because I need to price out how I will make 8 of these bad boys for a local ornamental iron shop.  Stay tuned!

 

[billyO]

So, here's what I learned:

2.) Make sure you use the heat you have.  Don't try and bend a little bit further cold.  Even heat (or non-heat) is best.

 

P.S. - If anyone wants to share the best way to heat and make large scrolls, I'm all ears!!!

Do you think you could use the fire for the small part of the scroll, then do the rest cold?  You hit the proverbial nail when you said, "Even heat (or non-heat) is best."  With 'Even' being the key word.  Heat just makes it easier.    

[fciron]

Hmm, just got caught up on this thread. Plenty of good information.

 

A couple of thoughts for Rick: at the beginning, you can draw a box the size you need and then draw the scroll to fit it. That way you only need to focus on getting a pretty scroll, the size will take care of itself. Sometimes you can get a longer heat in a small fire by moving the bar back and forth through the fire to heat a greater length.

 

The kink you got when you tried to bend into the cold part of the bar was because the metal follows the path of least resistance. The hot part is softer, so the hard cold metal acts as a lever and pushes the hot part away from the form and into a sharper bend (allowing the cold metal to remain unbent or less bent). Sometimes this can be corrected by pulling the bulge toward the form with a bending fork while unwraping the cold part of the bar ever so slightly.

If the metal is held tight to the form at the end of the head heat (with a second fork or a clamp) you can then bend the hot  Cold part.  HOWEVER, the form must be stronger than the material being formed, so if you try to wrap your 3/8" stock around your 1/4" form the metal had better be hot.

Edited to correct sleepy typing. I shouldn't post after 11. I probably shouldn't even be online after 11.

[Rick Barter]

If I had large enough stock, I could, but I don't have anything larger than the 3/8".  The largest I have is 1/4" x 2".

 

Do you think you could use the fire for the small part of the scroll, then do the rest cold?  You hit the proverbial nail when you said, "Even heat (or non-heat) is best."  With 'Even' being the key word.  Heat just makes it easier.    

[Rick Barter]

Good advice.  Thanks, FCIron.

 

Hmm, just got caught up on this thread. Plenty of good information.

 

A couple of thoughts for Rick: at the beginning, you can draw a box the size you need and then draw the scroll to fit it. That way you only need to focus on getting a pretty scroll, the size will take care of itself. Sometimes you can get a longer heat in a small fire by moving the bar back and forth through the fire to heat a greater length.

 

The kink you got when you tried to bend into the cold part of the bar was because the metal follows the path of least resistance. The hot part is softer, so the hard cold metal acts as a lever and pushes the hot part away from the form and into a sharper bend (allowing the cold metal to remain unbent or less bent). Sometimes this can be corrected by pulling the bulge toward the form with a bending fork while unwraping the cold part of the bar ever so slightly.

If the metal is held tight to the form at the end of the head (with a second fork or a clamp) you can then bend the hot part.  HOWEVER, the form must be stronger than the material being formed, so if you try to wrap your 3/8" stock around your 1/4" form the metal had better be hot.

[Rick Barter]

Well, I wrestled with making the jig, but got it done.  It then required some tweaking, but it was looking good.  So, I tried it.  It worked, but I realized I had a flat spot in the jig.  I reworked it again with the help of my brother-in-law and re-formed the scroll on the jig.  I find it very challenging to be patient and easy with the torch and the scroll wrench.  It is definitely a finesse thing.  But, I feel good that I got a nice scroll and the customer is happy.  Therefore, I will be able to finish the remaining 7 scrolls.  They are about 16" each.  Thanks to all who gave advice and guidance.  It definitely helped.  This craft is very humbling and rewarding.  I'M HOOKED!   ;)