Propane Burner Questions

[Robert Simmons]

I am working to build a forge and I have experimented with a few ideas on paper but havent started the construction. I figure I need to get a good burner up before I can think about the forge itself. So, to that end I have been doing some research and would like to ask some questions about burner construction. As a preface I have read most of Reil's pages on burners and gleaned a great deal of information but there are some holes in the knowledge.

I am considering building a burner with an inline Jet made of a MIG tip tapped into a brass end cap which is screwed on to a brass nipple that is, in turn, hooked up to the propane tank or manifold plumbing. For the burner tube I had thought to use a 1/2" diameter 12 inch black iron nipple with a 12" to 1" bell expander on each end to get the venturi effect to pull more air into the burner. For mounting the jet injector I have a couple of ideas but haven't made up my mind. Given that I have some questions.

1) First of all, is there anything I am doing that you can think of might be dangerous or just not work?
2) Two methods of mounting the jet are to leave the back open and hold the jet in place with three set screws or to tap a hole in an end cap screwed onto a nipple between the bell reducer and the end cap and then cut 1 inch holes in the nipple to allow air in. Is there any inherent advantage or disadvantage in either idea?
3) I noticed that Reil has a Nono-mongo prototype that is entirely out of brass, wouldn't there be a problem with heat given that brass melts more easily than iron? What parts of the burner will get extremely hot?
4) Again with the nano-mongo burner, I gather the brass tube was expanded with a flare, wouldn't that weaken the pipe? If not, how much could the metal be flared out without damaging it to the point of being useless? Could the same swaging be done on black iron if heated orange or would that not be advisable?
5) When it comes to side vent holes, is there any advantage to one large 1 inch hole over several 1/2 inch holes that have the same open area as the larger hole? I am concerned about structural stability of the nipple as I cut metal off of it.
6) Is there an upper limit to the venturi reduction that I need to keep in mind or could I mate my 1/2int to 1 inch bell to a 1" to 2" bell and get more airflow?
7) If the jet tube is brass will that be a problem or will I need black iron? How hot does the jet tube get?
8) If there anything i should look out for that might cause something catastrophic like an exploding tank?
8) If I can rig the jet tube so it can be adjusted not only by centering in the tube but also by its depth in the burn tube, will that be an advantage or is it a waste of time?

Thanks a bunch in advance.

[ThomasPowers]

Jet tube will probably be cold as that's where the pressurized gas drops in pressure and expansion cools things off. Really the only part that gets hot is the burner tube end in the forge; the rest will just be picking up radiated heat. The "burn" is out side the end of the burner tube or you have it set up wrong!

How do you plan to adjust the air to change the forge atmosphere from oxidizing to reducing as you need it? Somehow I don't see that in your questions and that has an effect on how some stuff is done.

The burner system doesn't need to be very strong as long as you are not using a weak point to support the whole thing. Flares should not be a weight bearing item---but they may oxidize depending on how your system uses them.

[Dodge]

I am working to build a forge and I have experimented with a few ideas on paper but havent started the construction. I figure I need to get a good burner up before I can think about the forge itself. So, to that end I have been doing some research and would like to ask some questions about burner construction. As a preface I have read most of Reil's pages on burners and gleaned a great deal of information but there are some holes in the knowledge.

I am considering building a burner with an inline Jet made of a MIG tip tapped into a brass end cap which is screwed on to a brass nipple that is, in turn, hooked up to the propane tank or manifold plumbing. For the burner tube I had thought to use a 1/2" diameter 12 inch black iron nipple with a 12" to 1" bell expander on each end to get the venturi effect to pull more air into the burner.[/b[/b[/b For mounting the jet injector I have a couple of ideas but haven't made up my mind. Given that I have some questions.

1) First of all, is there anything I am doing that you can think of might be dangerous or just not work?
2) Two methods of mounting the jet are to leave the back open and hold the jet in place with three set screws or to tap a hole in an end cap screwed onto a nipple between the bell reducer and the end cap and then cut 1 inch holes in the nipple to allow air in. Is there any inherent advantage or disadvantage in either idea?
3) I noticed that Reil has a Nono-mongo prototype that is entirely out of brass, wouldn't there be a problem with heat given that brass melts more easily than iron? What parts of the burner will get extremely hot?
4) Again with the nano-mongo burner, I gather the brass tube was expanded with a flare, wouldn't that weaken the pipe? If not, how much could the metal be flared out without damaging it to the point of being useless? Could the same swaging be done on black iron if heated orange or would that not be advisable?
5) When it comes to side vent holes, is there any advantage to one large 1 inch hole over several 1/2 inch holes that have the same open area as the larger hole? I am concerned about structural stability of the nipple as I cut metal off of it.
6) Is there an upper limit to the venturi reduction that I need to keep in mind or could I mate my 1/2int to 1 inch bell to a 1" to 2" bell and get more airflow?
7) If the jet tube is brass will that be a problem or will I need black iron? How hot does the jet tube get?
8)ything i should look out for that might cause something catastrophic like an exploding tank?
8) the jet tube so it can be adjusted not only by centering in the tube but also by its depth in the burn tube, will that be an advantage or is it a waste of time?

Thanks a bunch in advance.

1)1/2" will make for a very small burner. Not saying it won't work but it won't get very hot. Can't say as I have heard of one less than 3/4" I.D. Bell on jet end only. You need a flare on flame end but a bell is too radical. Reil was very specific about this IIRC
2)Use an anti flash-back check valve in the supply line after the regulator
3)The jet will only work well in one spot. It does however need to be as centered as possible on the center line of the tube

Hope this helps

[1justin]

I am working to build a forge and I have experimented with a few ideas on paper but havent started the construction. I figure I need to get a good burner up before I can think about the forge itself. So, to that end I have been doing some research and would like to ask some questions about burner construction. As a preface I have read most of Reil's pages on burners and gleaned a great deal of information but there are some holes in the knowledge.

I am considering building a burner with an inline Jet made of a MIG tip tapped into a brass end cap which is screwed on to a brass nipple that is, in turn, hooked up to the propane tank or manifold plumbing. For the burner tube I had thought to use a 1/2" diameter 12 inch black iron nipple with a 12" to 1" bell expander on each end to get the venturi effect to pull more air into the burner. For mounting the jet injector I have a couple of ideas but haven't made up my mind. Given that I have some questions.

1) First of all, is there anything I am doing that you can think of might be dangerous or just not work?
2) Two methods of mounting the jet are to leave the back open and hold the jet in place with three set screws or to tap a hole in an end cap screwed onto a nipple between the bell reducer and the end cap and then cut 1 inch holes in the nipple to allow air in. Is there any inherent advantage or disadvantage in either idea?
3) I noticed that Reil has a Nono-mongo prototype that is entirely out of brass, wouldn't there be a problem with heat given that brass melts more easily than iron? What parts of the burner will get extremely hot?
4) Again with the nano-mongo burner, I gather the brass tube was expanded with a flare, wouldn't that weaken the pipe? If not, how much could the metal be flared out without damaging it to the point of being useless? Could the same swaging be done on black iron if heated orange or would that not be advisable?
5) When it comes to side vent holes, is there any advantage to one large 1 inch hole over several 1/2 inch holes that have the same open area as the larger hole? I am concerned about structural stability of the nipple as I cut metal off of it.
6) Is there an upper limit to the venturi reduction that I need to keep in mind or could I mate my 1/2int to 1 inch bell to a 1" to 2" bell and get more airflow?
7) If the jet tube is brass will that be a problem or will I need black iron? How hot does the jet tube get?
8) If there anything i should look out for that might cause something catastrophic like an exploding tank?
8) If I can rig the jet tube so it can be adjusted not only by centering in the tube but also by its depth in the burn tube, will that be an advantage or is it a waste of time?

Thanks a bunch in advance.

Reil's bell reducer burners are no good, I've found. Because when the wind blows it disrupts the flow of gas. Somebody on here gave me blueprints for a T-Rex type burner that I made and is far superior to Reil burners, I can get a blue "torch" flame now that pretty much makes the didymium glasses I spent $50 on useless, before with Reil's I couldn't get anything but yellow flame. I'd be happy to send the print to you, measurements are mm because guy was swedish, so you'll need to convert. The exact measurements are not that important but I tried to stay w/in about 30 thou, and it turned out awesome! I'm a machinist too, so if you are not then you will need to find a machinist to make you some of the parts. It is way better than spending the $150 the guy charges for T-rex's though, but you can really tell where the money went with T-rex compared to Reil's. Anyway start a personal convo on here if you want me to send you the Adobe file.