filling holes / chills

[pkrankow]

I have an old Dayton 100A stick welder and I have been practicing some. I was trying to fill some holes in the basket of a trash compactor that is my practice plate, and I used a piece of flattened copper pipe. I burned through my pipe, and made a big hole. The holes and slots were 1/4 inch to 3/4 inch the short way (some were round).

I eventually figure out some of what I was doing wrong, (arc too long) but have not been able to fill most of these holes. I am laying better beads at least in the middle of the plate. The plate is about 1/8 inch thick.

I am using 1/8 6013, and 3/16 6011. I just got some 3/16 6013, but have not used it.

What thickness or size of chill is commonly used for good results backing large gaps and holes?

Phil

[monstermetal]

I have an old Dayton 100A stick welder and I have been practicing some. I was trying to fill some holes in the basket of a trash compactor that is my practice plate, and I used a piece of flattened copper pipe. I burned through my pipe, and made a big hole. The holes and slots were 1/4 inch to 3/4 inch the short way (some were round).

I eventually figure out some of what I was doing wrong, (arc too long) but have not been able to fill most of these holes. I am laying better beads at least in the middle of the plate. The plate is about 1/8 inch thick.

I am using 1/8 6013, and 3/16 6011. I just got some 3/16 6013, but have not used it.

What thickness or size of chill is commonly used for good results backing large gaps and holes?

Phil

I use chunks of copper buss bar for backing plates... They are a little over a 1/2" thick and the bigger they are the better they work (will dissipate more heat) Its the mass/conductivity that sucks away the heat that makes it work..

[pkrankow]

I was thinking that pipe was too thin when it was suggested to me in the first place. I will see what I can get or find. That or I will get the o'le ladle out and melt what copper and brass scrap I have to make something.

I work outside and most of the scrap is plumbing and wire, so fumes should be no worry. Worrying and preparing are different things.

Phil

[HWooldridge]

I have never liked 6013 - so I would recommend you stick to the 6011. It takes a bit of practice but you can whip the rod tip up and let the puddle freeze to help with the buildup.

A heavy piece of steel works fine for a backup bar unless the hole is so large that you might stick it to the work, although a little tack is OK if you can break it loose.

[Mainely,Bob]

For buildup and bridging gaps you may want to try 3/32 rods to start.Less amperage =less heat and keeping he arc short also cuts the heat.
If the crack is long enough you can work one end and then switch to the other end while the first cools a little and jump back and forth while building the edges in the middle(once again keep the arc short).
As HW said,if the gap is wide then sometimes you have no choice but to use a steel backer strip and then grind it off once the repair is made.
I would use a 7018-AC rod over either 6011 or 6013 but that may be just because I`m used to 7018 from pipe and shipyard work.

[arftist]

1/8" rod can weld 1/8" plate if the fitup is good. 3/16" rod will not even run on a 100 amp welder. Even 1/8" is marginal for 100 amp machine. It will burn but you are pushing your machine too hard. 3/32" is a far better choice.
As to which rod, 6013 is not a good choice for filling holes. 6011 is designed for poor fitup and will run well on much lower amps than 7018.
6011 is a fast freeze rod, enabling easy gapfilling/buildup. 7018 is a fast fill/slow freeze rod, tends to melt the edges of thin or poorly fitup joints.\
When filling holes patience is important. Allow the base metal to cool (freeze) before adding more weld.
Most welding schools use 1/4" plate and 1/8" rods for begining students.

[Mainely,Bob]

Arftist pretty well spells it out here.The things to pay attention to are the fact that you need AC rods(you said in an earlier post this was an AC only machine IIRC)and that any rod will be characterized by either fast fill or fast freeze or both( thanks for that Arftist).

Those pocket sized handbooks I keep talking about really shine here and remember,they`re usually either cheap or free(if you`re buying they`re usually free).
Once you get good at flat welding(and the right rod is imperative)then it`s even more important to know what rod will work for what comes next.Vertical up and overhead.

BTW-Arftist also brought up another good point about 1/4" or thicker butt welds being where most new weldors start.This allows you to get things like arc length and hand/eye co-ordination down to almost automatic before you tackle the more advanced things like out of position welding and gaps/holes in less than clean material.

Bust some of that scrap plate out of the treasure trove and prep it up good for practice instead of chasing holes in bad stuff right away.I used to hate having to weld up splits in the industrial trash compactors down at the dump and wouldn`t wish it on anybody so why are you starting with what would be a frustrating job for a seasoned weldor?
Be kind to yourself,Phil.Clean,well fit plate is where you need to be now.

[pkrankow]

My bad on the rod, I bought 3/32, not 3/16. Thanks for catching that Arftist. 1/8 is the max this little AC box will run (220V 30A input 100A AC max output).

A "new" possibly 20 year old box of 1/8 6013 came with the machine, and the fella at the welding store said to use it if it hadn't been wet as humidity will not hurt 6013, especially for practice. This rod seems to run OK.

I have only found 7018-AC in 1/8 inch rod...is that the only size it comes in? The charts say 7018 is an AC, EP rod. Is 3/32 7018 going to run OK as AC? My chart lists 60A-100A for it. I can get that easily local. Will 1/8 7018-AC run at 100A? My chart shows that as below minimum for 7018, and 7018-AC is not listed.

I just carefully re-read the Hobart welding school's SMAW course description and they specify 6010, 6011 and 7018. I will adjust my practice to this, even though a certification is not specifically in the works for now. 6010 is a DC only rod, so I will leave it alone with this machine.

I was practicing laying lines before filling the holes...but got bored. I figured out MORE once I started trying to fill the holes, and ran some better lines after that.

My treasure trove is very thin, this is the heaviest piece of scrap I have other than a leaf spring. I have all sorts of sheet metal down to about #26, but little thick sheet and plate. I have slightly THINNER metal that I want to weld a solid fuel table out of to set a brake drum into, actually the rest of the compactor basket cut apart and flattened. This is a household compactor from the late 60's/early 70's and is rather clean. I will grind the remaining paint and such off before practicing more on it. I will look for a better piece of plate, but do not want to spend money for that at this time.

I DO have some odd bits of 1/2 square and round and 1/4x1 A36 and mild that I could mess with in the cut-off bin. Most are only a few inches long though, and many have been partially forged on. I was saving them to practice "drop the tongs" forge welding...

I have a few downloaded manuals that I have read, but have only printed a page with the size vs amperage for common electrodes to have with the welder. Specifically I seem to consult the Miller SMAW guidelines download most.

http://www.millerwel...elines_smaw.pdf

Thank you all for the input.

Phil

[pkrankow]

I got the 7018-ac thing figured out. all it took was asking the gentleman at the welding store. He says they are labled differently and some are E7018-AC, and some are E7018, then in smaller print it will say E7018 AC. Asking a person face to face is sometimes the needed ticket. I picked up 7018AC in 3/32. His price is about the same as everywhere else for 5# quantities.

I will practice some more if my daughter stays down for her nap today. So far it look like she will.

Phil