Where does the line start to Blur?

[Francis Trez Cole]

I agree with frosty and good to see you back. Here in florida they don't reconize a forge weld. So any thing that is mortess and tennon Joint has to be welded as well. The trick is hiding it well. The best question I ever got from a costomer was could I make it look hand forged.

[John Larson]

I agree with Grant, but sure do appreciate customers that want forged pieces like the old days. When I demonstrate at historic Jerusalem Mill forge, I tell folks that metal working processes are additive, subtractive, and reformative. Welding (or fabrication) is mostly additive, machining is mostly subtractive, and forging mostly reformative. And I also say that the trick to efficiency is to know which process to use.

[monstermetal]

I agree with Grant, but sure do appreciate customers that want forged pieces like the old days. When I demonstrate at historic Jerusalem Mill forge, I tell folks that metal working processes are additive, subtractive, and reformative. Welding (or fabrication) is mostly additive, machining is mostly subtractive, and forging mostly reformative. And I also say that the trick to efficiency is to know which process to use.

Nicely put.... I think I'll have to steel that (not Steal) ;)

[Frank Turley]

In the 1960's, David Pye wrote a book titled, "The Nature and Art of Workmanship," where he begins with the idea of a dichotomy between hand tools and power tools. He gets a few pages into his book, and decides that the division isn't what he wanted to talk about at all. He arrives at something he calls, "workmanship of certainty" as opposed to "workmanship of risk." If memory serves, certainty means a product coming from machinery, perhaps an assembly line, where unless there is down time, it is difficult to tell one produced item from another. I'll use the example of an aluminum Coke can.

One example he used of risk workmanship, was blacksmithing. We know the risks. You can burn it up at any time. One blow too many and you can't recover the overly reduced metal. Etcetra.

In an early 1970's ANVIL'S RING, Tom Bredlow wrote an article called, "On the Anxieties of Using the Arc Welder." His article was a bit "tong in cheek," but the conclusion was that sometimes, arc welding could be used judiciously.

An example of this that I've thought of and used, is plug welding a Norfolk style handle onto its escutcheon. The weld will be hidden after installation. I think that is OK, unless one is doing period work and wants to be true to the material and technique. Then, tenons are used instead. Sometimes it is a matter of intent and/or what the customer wants.

Even though Tom Bredlow wrote the above mentioned article, he one time drove by my shop to show off his Packard gate that he was delivering to the National Cathedral in Washington, D.C. I looked it over and then asked whether there was any arc or oxy welding done on it. He said, "No, because that wasn't what it was!" Again, intent, and he knew it would be in the same building as other fine gates and grilles.

http://www.turleyforge.com Granddaddy of Blacksmith Schools

[arftist]

Considering that all metal working equipment was invented by blacksmiths, including electric welding, lathes and milling machines, I don't see anything wrong with using them in my work. I wouldn't call a handrail bracket made entirely in a lathe handforged though.

[Timothy Miller]

As a working blacksmith I feel that the term hand forged is quite abused. I think it would be in our interest to come up with a definition. a lot of things we buy are based on preceded value and that is why many of our customers come to us. There are a lot of part suppliers and fab shops looking to eat our lunch and passing off mediocre work. There are gunning for us just pick up a copy of the "Fabricator" or even the "Anvils Ring" there are ads form component suppliers and foundries. Telling us to save time and money by using there products. They even market to home builders and architects. Some times you get prints with all of the parts called off with numbers. In my opinion this amounts to defacto approval from Abana when they have their ads in there but that is a different rant. When some one is doing a minimal amount of hand work or no hand work and passing it off as hand forged it makes it harder for us smiths to make a living. Marketers are constantly blurring the lines of what words actually mean. A prime example is Wrought Iron anything made of steel and painted black is Wrought Iron. From time to time the term "Genuine wrought Iron" on prints for restoration work but this is mostly ignored. These sort of specifications could help working smiths get more work and stop unqualified shops form getting jobs they have no business doing.

With things like water-jet cutting CNC milling and 3D printers it is only a matter of time before some one builds a machine than can duplicate any shape in steel with any surface texture. They now even have CNC machine welders that can build up parts by adding welds in a highly controlled process. I had a client bring me a rapid prototype nylon replica of a hand forged u-bolt from a historic building he had it made in a 3D printer. He was contemplating having it milled from a billet of steel using a state of the art machining center. These sort of things are more expensive for the time being but who knows what is coming. It is only a matter of time in my opinion that someone with in the next 20 years will invent a process that duplicates reasonably well the appearance of hand forging.

If I ran the world this is how it would work.

"Traditional hand forged" would mean made with out the use of power tools in a coal or charcoal fire with the exception of direct water powered machinery.

"Hand forged" could be made using the 70/30 rule with any power equipment one likes to use. At least 70% of the work is done hot using forge/induction heater anvil power hammer press. Use of closed dies is minimal. I would say with tools and blades 50%50 would be acceptable because there often a lot of finish grinding and fitting.

"Forged Fabricated" could cover anything else that has forgings in it

And something called wrought iron has to be made from wrought iron everything else is wrought steel.