keykeeper Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) Bill, Sorry, didn't know I wasn't supposed to say anything. I've heard of more than one pritchel hole welded up by unknowing folks, so I figured that is what happened. For what it is worth, I think the anvil is a decent one, as evidenced by the slight sway in the face it appears to have. Probably seen more work in its time than I ever will. Good luck, I won't say anything more, for fear of being quoted (twice) and flogged publicly. Geesh, try to be helpful............ Edited September 14, 2009 by keykeeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_49 Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 Bill, Sorry, didn't know I wasn't supposed to say anything. I've heard of more than one pritchel hole welded up by unknowing folks, so I figured that is what happened. For what it is worth, I think the anvil is a decent one, as evidenced by the slight sway in the face it appears to have. Probably seen more work in its time than I ever will. Good luck, I won't say anything more, for fear of being quoted (twice) and flogged publicly. No, that was not chastising... I was just explaining my ignorance... I just learned the names of the holes this week, and I just "assumed" someone had welded the pritchel hole up. I just came in from wire brushing some of the anvil and can find no evidence that a pritchel hole ever existed. However, I probably couldnt tell if someone DID weld it shut and ground it smooth unless it was a very poor job. I also think that I may see casting lines on the anvil and places where those lines were ground down too far. I'm not sure what it is, but like you, I think it has been around for a while. I also doubt that whoever cast this anvil would not want to put his name on it. Did I mess up by quoting or paraphrasing you? I am very sorry if I did... I am a Dummy when it comes to smithing and welding. If you are ever over this way drop by and I'll show it to you. I doubt I will be able to get anything for it now, so I may have it for a while. I really don't know. Take care, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_49 Posted September 14, 2009 Author Share Posted September 14, 2009 (edited) Does it have a pritchel hole? If not it's a modern mexican cast anvil made using a "real" anvil to make the mould . We get a lot of them down this way. They range from pretty nice to atrocious depending on what they were casting that day. Also check the horn to see if there is a mold line going down the face of it. If it has a pritchel (that wasn't drilled as a retrofit) forget about the above. The green paint makes me wonder... Can you tell us what the bottom looks like? The indentation on the bottom is very indicative of several brands of anvils----HB, A&H, etc... I knocked some of the paint off of the top and under the heel and saw no evidence of a pritchel hole. I also see what looks like a casting line that extends virtually all the way across the top. I guess I have an anvil shaped boat anchor, huh? I'll tell you this, the horn and the other end (heel?) have a REALLY loud ping. I am using a very small hammer and am undecided about the middle section as of now. Maybe I'll post some pictures when I get some more paint off. Forget the markings, if there ever were any... the casting is atrocious. Bill Edited September 14, 2009 by Bill_49 change "casting" to "casting line" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Except that those brands didn't cast entire anvils, even the ones that used cast subsections forge welded them at the waist, (or later arc welded them together at the waist---see Anvils in America!) and so would not put the time and effort to weld up one of substandard parts. Also the trenton and others have a depression cast in the bottom to help the anvil sit flatter. If the bottom is flat it's NOT one of the antique ones. The Swedish anvils were the totally cast steel ones "historically". I'd bet it's one of the Mexican ones; I see 20 or so a year for sale down here---a lot show up at the implement auction and I'd bet that some were headed to Quad-State as our local anvil collector bought some to sell, (a good pallet load!) A good check for a welded up pritchel (which would have probably messed up the heat treat anyway) would be to check the underside. Most folks that work on the top side skimp the underside. Most likely way better than a HF ASO; but without heat treat they are at the bottom of the "real" anvil heap even when they are made from a good alloy. I've seen some cleaned up with a drilled pritchel (sharp edges!) and expect some bright lad will start converting them over to "antiques" by stamping them like the originals and rusting them a bit, sigh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Clean the face and check for rebound by dropping a large (1" is good) Ball bearing on the face. Rebound should be 80%-95% for most antique anvils. (anvilfire.com has a table of rebound test results: navigate anvilfire => 21st Century => anvils testing rebound ) Not a boat anchor! Better than the HF ASO's; but they are usually being marketed as what they are not. I mean who would put a mold line through the face of an anvil if they were going to cast one? Guarantees that you have a LOT of clean up to do before you can heat treat. I'd like to see one of these tested for alloy content and then appropriately heat treated. If you get one made with a good alloy it could be very nice indeed! Although the work to clean it up and heat treat would probably exceed the cost of buying a good anvil outright. Back around 1982 I owned 1 anvil and had it stolen a couple of days before I was to demonstrate at a museum for a day. The only thing I could find quick was a 220# Buffalo anvil---Chinese cast iron. I paid way too much for it; used it for the one demo---it dented *under* red hot coil spring when I was hammering on it. I then retired it and drug it around for YEARS till I met a fellow who swore on a stack of Bibles that he would never attempt to forge with it and I sold it to him at a loss. And folks wonder why I've multiple backups these days! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_49 Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 I checked the bottom of the anvil and I remember that my first impression was that not only was it flat, but it was lousy flat. My first thought was that it needs to be dressed, but then the whole anvil needs to be dressed. Oh well, maybe someone would like to buy a nice project anvil. It really needs some tender loving care. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_49 Posted September 17, 2009 Author Share Posted September 17, 2009 Ok guys, I got some of the paint off today and here are some pics... will have more tomorrow hopefully. I can see the glaring imperfections and maybe these are serious issues... I just do not know. Here you go: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 17, 2009 Share Posted September 17, 2009 Typical mexican anvil, un fettled, un heat treated and of unknown alloy. Can you run the ball bearing test on it, that will probably give the most data on if it's worth working on. The stuff on the side are really of no importance, its the face and the horn that count! Might see if a local vo-tech would mill the face and base clean for you as a project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_49 Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 I don't have a large ball bearing, but I used a small hammer and got more rebound on the horn than on the middle of the top plate. Both the horn and the tail have a nice ping but the center is not nearly as loud. I found another issue on the bottom I will try to get a pic of in the next day or two. It looks like metal has been added to the bottom of the base to fill it it. Not sure when this was done, while casting, or later. Oh well... que seras. Thanks... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brasilikilt Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I think that if you really don't need this anvil, you *could* donate it to a community college that has a welding/blacksmith program. #1 You would be able to claim the donation for your taxes and get back what you paid for it. #2 These types of schools have most, if not all the equipment needed to refurbish this anvil, and I'm sure that there would be students who would love to get some practice doing something like this. When they were done welding on it, they could send it on down the line to the machinist students so they could mill down the face..... When all was said and done, you get your money back and the school has a large anvil for students to use and learn on for years to come. I took a Community College Blacksmith course last spring, and I can safely say that my fellow students and I would have been very eager to get an anvil like this into usable condition. Just a thought I had....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_49 Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 That's a good idea Brasilikilt... my wife used to work at H&R Block, and we have discussed donating item before. The only problem is that we don't make enough between us to itemize. I would probably be able to get a good price for it (on paper) as a donation. As it stands, I will either keep it and use it as is, keep it as a project (I need another project like I need another hole in my head.), or I will let someone who needs it and wants to fix it up buy it. Right now I will probably keep it around and just look at it for a while. I have a large walnut out back... may cut it down to make a nice stand for this thing. I keep looking for Pancho Villa's signature on it. Thanks for the idea, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_49 Posted September 18, 2009 Author Share Posted September 18, 2009 I did a little more cleaning on the anvil today... hope to finish it tomorrow. Here are a few more pics: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_49 Posted September 19, 2009 Author Share Posted September 19, 2009 I finally got the last of the paint off today and took a few final pics... getting it off of that soft floor seems to have helped the ping, but I only had a small ball bearing and couldn't get a good test. Here are the pics: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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