Steve Sells Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Rich Hale] I spoke with Steve about a thought for tonight ,,,would you like to discuss over all shapes of knives and how they relate to fitting guards etc? [steve sells] Rich is on tonight I am taking a rest [WagonMaster] Sounds good. [Rich Hale] Ok we have a motion and a second. WE have a motion and second.....sop let me mention a couple of things. This will entail looking at some knives and the first one up is a fine piece of work It wouild be really easy to get side tracked and say "how did he do that" that is for another night...so I will let you look at the pic and return...and will will mention items about the blade...enjoy the pattern but this is not about that: Go to the forums and look in the knife section at the post with Feathers in the knife section , Blacksmith Forum [garey] ok. nice pattern [Rich Hale] Take a peek and come back [Finnr] Fantastic work [jimmy seale] yes that is sick.... [garey] is that a notch in the tang? [Rich Hale] That is why I selected it Now lets look at what makes it really right...the pattern is obvioous. [garey] almost flat grind [markb] The tang is recessed all around the ricasso [Rich Hale] Look at the shoulders he has fitted for the guard to fit to [Finnr] : Nicely done plunge cuts [Rich Hale] And as mark noticed,, he has clearance the tan so he can get a really nice fit with not gaps at the guard. [garey] milling machine Rich ? [Rich Hale] I use a file Garey but a mill would work great. So planning ahead before heat treat makes life better when fitting the guard. [Cool Hand] Rich, didn't one of those pics have a "barb wire" damascus blade? [steve sells] that is a different thread [Rich Hale] Garey mentioned a couple of nothes on the tang....anyone know why? [Finnr] Grip the epoxy [markb] glue hold [garey] place for the glue to get a bite ? [Rich Hale] I believe that is what the cuts are for [markb] Do you use a clamp/guide to file [Rich Hale] No Finn mentioned the real nice job on the plunge cuts...the end of the grind where it meets the ricasso...between the guard and the grind. I do that Mark simple homemade mild steel with allen bolt as a clamp [garey] notice there is a slight radius on the tang at the top and bottom where it joins the back of the blade body? [Rich Hale] Do you notice that the ricasso area is narrower from top to bottom than the rest of the blade? [markb] stress relief [Rich Hale] Finn and Garey see all the little things that make a good blade [markb] didn't notice [Rich Hale] Why would we want the ricasso to be narrower than the blade? [garey] you got to learn from all your mistakes [Finnr] Ease in sharpening [Rich Hale] Yes, Another thing is the size of your handle material. [garey]looks better, easier to sharpen and gives more handle room [Rich Hale] If your handle material is the same size as the blade it looks nice.... If the handle is larger than the blade it seems odd [Finnr] Nice flow that way [Rich Hale] If the handle is smaller than the blade this kind of shape can blend it all together..... everyone with us so far? [Finnr] Yep [markb] ok [Rich Hale] And by the way the entire knife just reeks of craftsmanship [Finnr] Design is a MAJOR factor in knife making [garey] wonder if Rich would adopt me for a year so i could learn more from him? [steve sells] Chain saw Files, and a med and fine bite MILL file are very usefull tools for a knife maker I love my bader B3 but it has not replaced hand files [Rich Hale] bison-bowie-plus-2 - Blacksmith Photo Gallery [garey] files are for fine tuening and fancy hand finishing work. [Rich Hale] The large knife in this pis is an fine example of how to make a handle and blade flow together [steve sells] : also close in shape to teh project knife [markb] several steps from handle to blade [steve sells] nice flow tho [Rich Hale] This one also 4-crosses-2 - Blacksmith Photo Gallery [Finnr] I have an example here of bad flow if I may [garey] nice handle materials [steve sells] file or mill work in the metal in front of the handle ? [Rich Hale] That pic makes it look like the top of the blade does not line up with the top of the handle but i think it is the camera angle....... [markb] I like the piece behind the guard also when they put one in front, ads interest [Finnr] This is just NOT an appealing handle [Rich Hale] Finn let me work thorough these and come back if we wish [Rich Hale] Damascus knife - Blacksmith Photo Gallery [markb] woo dude could you do any more wrong [Rich Hale] This is another style ...there is no guard hanging down... [Finnr] I've seen that someplace? [steve sells] pawn shop ?> [Rich Hale] The top lines and bottom match up and carries you eye through the whole piece. This would work reall good for tutting on a board no guard in the way. Finn keep that link for me later ok? [Finnr] Will DO [Rich Hale] 12/21/08 - Blacksmith Photo Gallery [markb] The transition from blade to handle is hardest no mater how simple for me [Rich Hale] These are well made and clean blades......Any thoughts on them? I hope this helps Mark, I am selecting them at random not promoting or putting anyones work on the block here [markb] almost look like integrals [Rich Hale] How could we fit guards to those blades Damascus Hunter - Blacksmith Photo Gallery [garey] dont think you can and make it look right [Rich Hale] This is anothe nice flowing piece with the narrower ricasso aera than the blade....... Garey I would have a time with those....Would like to see how they were done Any one find the links? [markb] i got lost I'm not leav'n [Rich Hale] Any questions ? [Finnr] If you just open KNIVES in the gallery it's the first posting [steve sells] Knives - Blacksmith Photo Gallery [Finnr] leading the eye from point to buttcap smoothly makes for a nice looking ( well selling ) knife [WagonMaster] Member Profile - Blacksmith Photo Gallery [Rich Hale] I got it...There were a lot of folks selling damascus billets...this fella had a display piece... Knife Show - Blacksmith Photo Gallery This is different than we have been loooking at Does not follow wot we have discussed [Finnr] Looks subtly wromg [markb] wide blade, wider than handle [markb] like to have the tooth [steve sells] looks like too much Japanese Animation or Sinbad [Rich Hale] That is a pretty nice blade and nice guard,,,fitted with a precey whale tooth......(I may never own one) [Rich Hale] So you decide if you like it or no........The makers at this show sell a lot of knives and I saw many fitted like this [Finnr]A bit of something to flare out toward the blade would help it a whole lot [steve sells] a smaller blade would have looked better. [WagonMaster] its nice but the handle realy doesn't fit the blade.. is that correct. [markb] A brutish look [Rich Hale] I did not see this knife Cool hand took the pics...think the camera makes the blade bigger and handle smaller.... [Rich Hale] Brutish is a good word [Finnr] LOL!! I got that [Rich Hale] This is the blade that cool spoke of earlier with the barb wire...look it over Knife Show - Blacksmith Photo Gallery [markb] Some old bowies have that big blade look [Finnr] being able to see the guard from teh other side would help [steve sells] THAT is a cool pattern [Rich Hale] Great pattern in Vegas there was a guy sellilng billets with that pattern [steve sells] but seems out of balance with the handle again [markb] Nice materials but ddesign falls short IMHO [Finnr] Where the handle is level with the spine of the blade helps the flow [Rich Hale] I thin I can see the bottom of the ricasso area near the guard....? [WagonMaster] : Awful lot of blade there. [steve sells] helps but still too lartge a blade for the handle size [markb] Mongo guard [Rich Hale] What would you do with this blade ? [Finnr] Sell it? [steve sells] melt it before it got seen [steve sells] a KATAR blade with A BOWIE HANDLE [markb] Full tang centered on blade [Rich Hale] How would it look it you narrowed the ricasso area? [Finnr] Looks like the ricasso is wider than the blade in the pic [markb] Good [Rich Hale] Or a larger handle? Or both? [markb] both [Finnr] Some of each would be good [garey] put a curve in the ricasso? where it would blend in with the hanbdle? [Rich Hale] I think that would work Garey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted June 10, 2009 Author Share Posted June 10, 2009 [Finnr] My thought exactly Garey [Rich Hale] And maybe a dose of Finnr Now what about no guard at all? [Rich Hale] Knife Show - Blacksmith Photo Gallery [markb] Thats a hard transition [garey] i would make the blade more narrow , not as tall and do a curved in area behind the ricasso [Finnr] then a gentle curve in teh ricasso area would be great and serve as a hand guard [Rich Hale] These are nicel ittle knives I would call bird and trout........With that curve Finn Do we all use a belt grinder? [Finnr] Love those!! [brucegodlesky] those pictures won't come up for me [Rich Hale] I know garey does [Finnr] Of sorts, LOL [Rich Hale] How about this one Bruce? [garey] i really like those small blades. [Rich Hale] How could we grind that curve into the blade before heat treat? [brucegodlesky] nope [Finnr] Couple way, Run your belt off the side of the contact wheel is one [Rich Hale] Yes for sure [brucegodlesky] I ground some b&t this evening with an upswep curve [garey] if you got the small wheel attachment use that to put the recessed curve in thye blade [Finnr] Or use a small wheel for shaping [Rich Hale] And if you have a four or five incho contact your are set Garey can you get a blade onto your idler wheel? Without making the papers? [garey] could use the dremmel with a small drum and sanding collar [Rich Hale] Yes Could hacksaw,,file grind ,,lots f ways...before heat treat is the answer. [Finnr] My cheap nasty 1 inch belt sander has about a 1 1/2 inch idler that works a treat Beat that puppy in over the horn [Rich Hale] Scriber a really good line and watch it close..then when you glue and pin scales you just grind to steel [Finnr] On those the most common mistake I see is not working the front of the handle material before pinning [Rich Hale] If you forge blades that is a good way also...The point is really that if you plan for the handle and the overall look of the finished poiece as much as you do the blade you will make a good looking piece. have a couple more thoughts will take a minute or three then questions if you wishknife by Rich Hale - Blacksmith Photo Gallery how do we attach the guard on this piece and the handle materials? [steve sells] I want one of those [jimmy seale] fine workmanship [garey] recessed fit , hidden tang lots of hand filing. [Finnr] That a soldered Guard Rich ? Nice tight fitting of the guard and hand grip [Rich Hale] That blade is just like the feather pattern we looked at earlier [Finnr] OK nicely relived all round the tang [Rich Hale] I slotted the guard the sides of the blade and front of the guard were mirror polished first Then soldered the guard in place and finished it [Finnr] brass chisel for solder clean up? [markb] Did solder flow to blade guard line [Rich Hale] The slipped each individual piece,,spacers fossils wood etce,,the tang is long and comes to about a half inch or so of the butt of the handle [Finnr] solder Is dyslexia catching? [Rich Hale] Theree is a little sold line blending the two either brass or nickel pin stock with half round chisel edge [markb] Could you do without solder [steve sells]: Hey dont blame me. My Dr says I am not contagious [Rich Hale] Yep Mark and on damascus I press fit,,,use some J B weld for water tight [markb] I haven't tried solder, oh boy [Finnr] Solder is a Puppies Momma to clean up on damascus [brucegodlesky] I use JB for all guards [Rich Hale] GET a K and G catalog it 'spains it all in there [Finnr] Don't ask how I know :whistle: [Rich Hale] Lots of folks do now Bruce,,,,, [markb] 1Catalog have more than on-line [brucegodlesky] Since I file all 4 sides of the ricasso, ya dont see any gap atall [Rich Hale] Ok last one does anyone know how to fit these bolsters in place? Bolsters knife - Blacksmith Photo Gallery [markb] I couldn't find trucor? [steve sells] I hidden pin those but I am sure there MUST be a better way [Finnr] saw cut for the riccasso? [Rich Hale] I drill four holes in the blade after useing a marking pen to mark where the bolsters will be......eighth inch holes [Finnr] Yupper [garey] hidden pins [Rich Hale] Yes is that how you do your tangs? [brucegodlesky] pretty much [Rich Hale] then after heat treat I clean out the holes of any scale with a littl round diamond file. I use 416 ss for pins and bolsters [Finnr] 11:04 pm: Downright slick ! [Rich Hale] I flatten the backs of the bolsters,,polish the fronts polish the blade [markb] Nice work, under statement [brucegodlesky]well done bolsters really set off a blade [Rich Hale] Then buff the pins cut the pins off a little long and pein themn really snug then to the big anvil and a 2 lb hammer and hit them again, Then before putting on scale i grind and buf the tops off to make sure they are hidden [brucegodlesky] you use a tapered hole Rich? [garey] when you going to write a book Rich on knife making and fit & finniswh? [Rich Hale] Next life [garey] 11:09 pm: finnish ! [Rich Hale] I did not invent any of this I am like a parrot [Rich Hale] That would be nice Steve...Just precede it with the idea that ist is not to showcase or pick on any one maker.... I dont think we had anything we presented that was picked on [Finnr] First off it's obviously a turned handle, blasted hard to grip properly [steve sells] boll-A-rama pin on the end of pattern welded blade [Finnr] Yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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