rosebud

[ironantlerforge]

I have seen Albert Paley use a massive rosebud to heat up material too big for the forge and I'm wondering if anyone knows where I can get something like that? I would love to find something to run off of propane and oxygen.
I basically need a way to heat up large pieces of sheet metal without the use of an enclosed box.

Thanks!

IAF

[Charlotte]

Victor used to produce something like that for industrial use. I would check with Hybridburners.com He produces a very stable burner that in some sizes can be adapted to massive hand held heating jobs with out additional oxygen.
Personally, while I have immense respect for Albert Paley the the Artist, I am less in awe of Albert Paley the technician. There are, strickly my opinion based on vid that he himself chose to show at a public lecture, often other more economical and perhaps safer techniques for working than he uses.

Sometimes, very creative artists value working creatively and freely over economy.

Propane/Pressurized Air torches, are and economical alternative to Propane/Oxygen. Propane/Oxygen is, in my opinion, too expensive to use for anything but critical point heating. Big Rose buds and propane Gulp oxygen at wonderful rates.

I have in the past used my shop air, with dry filters, to power propane air torch tips.

Safety Warning: Do not under any circumstances run oxygen through a line that has had shop air run through it. One drop of oil vapor can cause a terrible explosion. (speaks from 20 years experience with pressurized oxygen.)

[ThomasPowers]

Well IAF what did your local welding supply company suggest when you asked them?

I heartily concurr though that propane is a much better and economical (and safer) fuel to use over acetylene for rosebud use and you may also want to look into Oxy-Propane for cutting as it's cheaper and does a better job in many peoples opinion.

[SGropp]

If you choose to go with an oxy/propane rosebud set up, it's worthwhile to set up 2 [or more ] oxygen tanks on a manifold system so you don't freeze up the regulator from the high withdrawal rate.
You can also use Chemtane2 as the fuel gas which gives a higher flame temp. than regular propane at 1/2 to 2/3 rds the oxygen consumption. You can use the same regulators, hoses and tips that are compatible with propane.

[ironantlerforge]

Thanks for the advise everyone. I need to talk to my local welding supply about rosebuds and see what they have. In the past they basically said that my current oxygen tanks are too small to properly operate a large rosebud. I was not ready at the time to go to bigger tanks but now might be the time. I have also heard of oxygen producing machines so you can produce your own and fill your own tanks but I'm sure that's probably too expensive. I'm going to check into that Chemtane2 fuel. I have never heard of that before. Can you use it on a propane forge?

[Charlotte]

I don't know what chemtane 2 is. I suspect it is one of the variations on Mapp gas or Blazer. Fuels like that will give a slightly higher heat at significantly greater expense. The idea is to give performance that is almost acetylene with out the limitation of withdraw rates you find with acetylene'.
The trick used is to mix unsaturated C3 hydrocarbons with propane to jack up the temp. They are good fuels but not the answer where quanity of heat is the issue.

Stick with propane and air for large heating. Look in Grainger for their propane air torches. Or as I suggested earlier check out Hybrid Burners.com

He produces some truely heroic burners that can be mounted for hand use.

Another source of burners is Ward Burners that produces Propane Air burners with heat out puts greater than anything commonly used in Smith work. Ward Burners produces compact burners for Raku kilns that can be used some what like Rose buds.

I'm trying to save you money and time. I know welding gas from twenty years in Industrial Gases. I was a member of ABANA before I went to work in the industry.

Edited April 29, 2009 by Charlotte
spelling

[Refuz]

I have used and worked with others who use propane roofing torches(used to melt the tar paper). They put out a ton of heat over a large area and have nice long handles so you don't roast yourself. HF has them cheap and just pick up a small propane tank and your good to go.

[Dodge]

I have used and worked with others who use propane roofing torches(used to melt the tar paper). They put out a ton of heat over a large area and have nice long handles so you don't roast yourself. HF has them cheap and just pick up a small propane tank and your good to go.

Will those heat metal to a forging heat? I didn't realize they got that hot.

[Sukellos]

A muzzleloading buddy of mine bought one of those HF weed burners/roofing torches and uses it inside of an old piece of clay pipe to forge knife blades and such. They'll heat thinner stuff to forging temp if somewhat enclosed. A half-dozen fire brick ought to do it so that you can still leave it plenty open to get your piece in under the flame.

BTW, For those roses I make, I just clamp them in the vise and heat them with a hand-held plumber's propane soldering torch. It's not even a TURBO torch and it will work with propane, hotter with MAPP.

[Dodge]

A muzzleloading buddy of mine bought one of those HF weed burners/roofing torches and uses it inside of an old piece of clay pipe to forge knife blades and such. They'll heat thinner stuff to forging temp if somewhat enclosed. A half-dozen fire brick ought to do it so that you can still leave it plenty open to get your piece in under the flame.

It sounds like he wants to use it out in the open. I don't believe it will get anything or any thickness hot enough to forge with out an insulated enclosure. A rosebud is the way to go; Propane, Mapp or otherwise :)

[Scott Hightower]

Roofers use a long giant rosebud to heat up rolled roofing material. Visit your local roofing supply house.

Of course welding supply stores will have these as well, but I like the roofing tool better because of the long handle. It is about 3 ft long so it keeps you away from the heat for both comfort and safety.

Scott
Fab Manager
welders360.com