Allow me to introduce myself

[NN4N]

Ive already spent quite some time reading the vast amounts of information on IFI, so I figured it would be a good time to introduce myself. On the internet I go by the nickname NN4N, my real name is Allard and you can call me by either. In my 'normal' life I'm a student at Erasmus University Rotterdam (The Netherlands) at which I study Economics & Informatics.

I got interested in blacksmithing a while ago, so I built a most basic forge, because I didnt want to waste time building a forge and finding out I didnt like blacksmithing much after all. I don't have a picture of it (I found out you guys really like those), but I do have a picture of my first project.

My first project was a hot set of which the design was taken from "Basic Blacksmithing with locally available materials". A picture can be found under attachments.

So I was hooked and i built a new forge. Spent a few days gathering up as much information as I could and started working. You can see my welded firepot (made from 10mm plate steel, which is slightly larger than 3/8"), my table in progress and my finished table with forge and blower in the pics.

My brother worked in a metro tunnel for a few weeks and he set me up with a piece of 38cm ~ 15" railroad which weighs around 18 kilo's. That's the anvil done.

I quickly found out this forge was much better and a lot hotter than my previous forge. Finding out as in burning a few pieces of metal . So I made myself a fire poker and rake from the bars they use to reinforce concrete.

I lacked a pair of tongs, so I made 'em from an old handsaw for iron, which have a wide U looking piece of iron in which the sawblade is mounted (http://www.2college.nl/tech/toets1p1/ijzerzaag.JPG). They came out pretty ugly and are quite small, but work very well. Also pics below.

After that I started working on a knife made from a piece of coil spring. I based the design largely on the M4 Bajonet (http://www.fulton-armory.com/WWII-M4s_50.jpg). I like the design with 2 cutting edges. It's hardened and tempered, still needs polishing and a handle though.

My latest project is a diagonal peen hammer which I made from a vehicle half shaft. It came out quite a lot lighter than I had planned (weighs close to 300grams) and I had a hard time drifting the eye. You can see the hammer both in rough&drilled and ground&drifted below.

Finally (you can almost stop reading don't worry) I'm in the market for a nice anvil. I looked at a Mannesmann anvil of 50kg ~ 110lbs(I need an anvil I can carry, because I carry my entire 'shop' outside to work). So 50kg is about the maximum. After contacting the store I found out the anvil wasn't or hardly hardened, so I think it would be a bad choice (your opinions are welcome). At this point I'm looking at an anvil of 45kg~100lbs from 1882 (don't know the brand, again your expertise is welcome) which is 10cm ~ 4" wide and 52,5cm ~ 21" long (to the tip of the horn). I think with a little grinding and polishing it can look great again. I attached pics of the anvil as well.

I hope all this text doesn't scare potential readers off Thanks for reading! Any comments on anything are welcome! Constructive criticism is great in my opinion, so don't just point out the good parts in my work also let me know what I did wrong or could do better!

Talk to you all in the near future!

NN4N

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Allard, glad to have you.

I like the way you think, read some and get to it. Well done.

Nice looking fire pot and table though I'd put a rim around the edge to contain coal, leaving low spots on both sides to you can lay long stock down and keep it in the correct fire zone.

I can't say much about this anvil from looking at it other than to say it's in solid working condition, I wouldn't do ANY grinding on it at all except to radius the edges a little. Everything else is surface rust and will work right off the face once you put it to work. If you want to clean the sides a wire brush is all it needs.

The problem, danger actually of grinding on anvils before you've used it is some have thin face plates. There's a chance of grinding right through it trying to get a flat face and remove the dings. For the most part a flat face is over-desired and less than necessary for good quality work. A dinged up face is more problematical but till you're doing fine finished work still not a significant problem.

Once you've used it a while, built a good skills base and determined what kind of forging you really want to do, often NOT what you started out thinking you want to do, it's time to think about reconditioning or even rebuilding an anvil.

you are right about the cast iron ones, they're generally barely better than no anvil at all, a piece of RR rail is actually a better choice.

Frosty

[NN4N]

Thanks for your comments Frosty!

I was thinking about a rim on the able at first, but I wanted to test everything first and so far I've had little trouble with coal falling off. Anyway it might be something to consider.

Thank you for your advice on the anvil since I have no experience in that field. I knew that it was possible that the face was thin however. I was thinking of using something called 'vlaklamellenschijf' in dutch I'm not sure what it's called in english () which you use on an angle grinder. When you take one that is pretty worn they clean off rust really well. I used the same on my RR rail anvil. But after your advice I think I will go with wirebrushing.

As for what I am planning to forge I'm not sure yet. First I'm gonna get my own tools sorted, after that I'll see what I like.

Allard

[Frosty]

We call those "flap wheels or flap disks" they're not too aggressive if you don't use a coarse grit but the less metal you remove the better. Once gone, it's not coming back.

Things might not fall off your forge table while you're test firing it but when you start forging it's different. One of the secrets of success is speed, you only have a few seconds after you pull the steel from the fire to get it to the anvil and do what work you can. This depends on thickness of course but in general you don't get much time to work let alone think.

If you have to concern yourself with knocking burning coal off the table you'll find yourself having to go slower to avoid it. Tools you'd normally keep right there will be elsewhere and the really REALLY handy hammer/tong rack that hangs from the rim won't be there at all. That or it will be welded on and you won't be able to reposition it. You can also make clip on helpers to support long stock.

There are a number of reasons to put a rim on the table though almost all of them can be addressed with something else. For instance the hammer/tong rack and helpers can use sq. tubing receiver tubing welded under the table and the racks themselves telescope in. Actually this has a LOT of advantages to consider. I have the telescoping tube system on my propane forge and it's super handy though it takes a little care making them so they are firm but don't bind. Still, it's not a big thing.

One reason I like clip on racks is I can and in fact have a stand to hold the small clip on racks. This lets me keep similar tools together so I can change out for different jobs simply by lifting one rack off my table/forge/ anvil stand (Yes I have these things everywhere) and replace it with one from the stand. When you have a multi-step job, it's really handy and a LOT faster if you don't have to look through a bunch of tools you don't need right then to find the tool you do need RIGHT NOW.

For instance, say I were making a hammer. After cutting and marking the stock I like to slit and drift or punch and drift the eye first. For this I have a number of specific tools from the slitters, punches, drifts, tongs, BIG hammers etc. ALL these will fit on one clip on rack.

After making and shaping the eye I'll want to do some shaping, dressing, etc. on the hammer body itself. For this I have a different set of tools and all of them fit on one clip on rack.

Changing tooling from eye to body shaping literally takes only a couple seconds. And they simply lift off or drop onto the rim of the forge or work table unlike the telescoping racks which can be a pain if loaded. However it would be no trouble at all to build the telescoping rack to support clip on racks.

My thing is flexibility. While a tool designed to do everything does NOTHING well it doesn't mean tools and equipment, support equipment especially, have to be uni-taskers. (good for only one thing)

While a thing like an anvil stand has one real purpose in existence it can do a few more things for you in the process. Almost everybody has hammer racks or some type and many have tool holders as well. The anvil stand isn't what I consider "support" or ancillary equipment, it has one main task and is good for a couple more in direct support.

What I consider SUPPORT equipment are the true multi-taskers like benches, tables and stands. I have a little steel table about 2' sq. that has a rim to hold up to 4 clip on racks. It also has a shelf half way to the ground to stiffing the legs and provide additional storage. Now, if I'd owned my first good anvil when I built it the top of the rim would be level with the face of my anvil to provide support for long stock. At least one of it's legs would be open at the top so I could use it as a receiver tube and hold a small vise, clamps, hardy tools, etc.

It's hard to incorporate too much utility in a piece of support equipment like a table or stand. If it needs to be portable it has to be light and small enough to move or break down to move.

This is probably enough for now. I'd really rather be out working on the shop but I picked up a bug and am coughing pretty steadily. So, I'll take out my present excess of energy on you guys.

Frosty

[gmann555@att.net]

Greeting,
Perhaps you folks could help me identify a 238# anvil The only markings I have been able to find on the side of the anvil are a clear stamping of the number "2" on the left hand side (~center Height), a clear stamping of the number "13" on the right hand side (~center Height), and the letter "F" on the lower central side of the anvil. A little reading showed me that the celtic anvil would have three numbers and if the central number was gone, or a zero Two hundredth weights (112#) plus zero quarter hundredth weights plus 13 actually equal 238#. Does this make sense to any of you who would know better than I?????? I also have not been able to figure out what the "F" might mean. I have looked at the bottom and found nothing, and lightly wire brushed most of the surfaces. Should I be looking elsewhere??
Also, what would this anvil be worth in the midwest (US). Horn is ~11 inches, flat is almost 18 by ~4 5/8, and the base is 11X11 inches.

Edited April 27, 2009 by gmann555@att.net
error in text

[Bentiron1946]

NN4N, I would second Frosty's assessment on the anvils. The older anvil is a much better buy then th e new cast iron anvil any day. Nice forge you have built, really stout, but a low rim would be nice. Good fortune in your future forging activities.

[NN4N]

Bentiron thank you for your comment. I kinda made that choice for myself before I made my first post here, however I like the reassurance from experienced guys.

Sorry to hear about the illness Frosty, but I can appreciate the time you took to give me some advice. I was planning on building some racks in the near future (as I am planning to build some bigger tongs as well once I can get my hands on some material). Usually I plan ahead these kind of steps so I can gather information about it so I can get to building right whenever the need arises. Your comments fit in really well there I think I'll be looking into rack designs and think about a practical way to attach a rim. I'm not really a metalworker (my background is mostly in computer science ), but I just love to make things with my hands.

Now is good time to stop talking, I don't wanna fill up the whole page again. Talk to you all later!

Allard