RR-spike axes seems popular...

[jake pogrebinsky]

Now this:Bilo , utstilling av

[dablacksmith]

interesting pictures! i tend to agree about railroad spike axes ... they are a ge gaw that sels but arnt really tools... at least most of them fall in that catagory ( ge gaw is a term used for a decorative item that looks useful but isnt) i injoy the pictures of original axes from other countries! american axes tend toward the modern patterns fairly early ... and old ones are difficult to find (and expencive).your comment about trying to figure how something was done is a good one .. i recently posted a thread about spanish colonial spearpoints and used that idea .. i wanted to reproduce how they were made and tried a couple of methods before sucess ..the one thing about a rr spike axe is it is a way to learn to punch/ slit a hole with a fair chance of some sucess .. the spikes are only 5/8 or so sq so not as tough as 1 in sq or bigger and being low carbon more forgiveing and easyier to strech ..but when someone posts a picture and the item isnt good work i tend to not comment .. I still have my first tommahawk built 20 + years ago .. at the time i thought it was great ( finally got a forge weld to work) now i look at to keep myself humble.. i try not to critisize someones work unless the specifically ask for comments and i think i can help... have fun!

[jake pogrebinsky]

Sure,dablacksmith,you're right about some people having a different purpose,not wanting to hear that they didn't work hard enough at something,or any criticism at all.It's tough for me to imagine:i love forging so much that i'll always put learning above my hurt feelings...But it's different for others.
I liked the way that you dealt with those spears,by the way,esp.that central thickening.I thought that you must've used top&bottom tool like some use on pickets,or the like.You did clean and competent there,anyhoo,respect.
Also,of course i know what you mean about some early work:Some stuff that i was really proud of,i'd now prefer to not even see,embarassing to the hilt,awful,man...normal reaction,i suppose(or hope).
Here's some assorted junk from my past half-dozen years.More and more of that is beginning to seem goofy to me now,as well.It's a good thing that i've finally learned enough computer stuff to edit it once in a while.

http://picasaweb.google.com/jakesiron

Edited April 18, 2009 by jake pogrebinsky
spaced the link out

[jimmy seale]

mr jake i guess ya a master...but some of us can do with out "sarcastic" critisem... me i don care but that is a bad thing ya got started- some younguns here is trying, i will ask that you ask to be pardended for your previous words. i'm jimmy seale and i will be here

[jake pogrebinsky]

Jimmy seale,i'd not hesitate to apologise if i've done someone wrong.I've not been sarcastic yet,but very earnest:There's not any one right way to slit and drift an eye,as an example,but the discussion CAN go on,about where the different attempts lead to.If someone,young or old,publishes their work here without a desire to hear what others think about it,maybe they can specifically indicate that critique is not welcome.Otherwise,i reserve the right,in speaking to the membership in general,to point out the faults in their work-(as i see it,and as full of beans as i is)something that i,and many others,are actually o.k with,where our own work is concerned.
And,"master"?Of my own thoughts and actions,for sure!Forging-wise,mastery is when you quit learning(read-dead).

[dablacksmith]

this is a interesting descussion ! i agree about the lable master.. i think it is used too much . most people never make it to master .you are doing good work tho jake.. as far as the ball section on the spear i used a guilotine type fuller on round stock to isolate the mass then forged it to a ball ...i tried at first to wrap a band around a regular spearpoint blank (i use leaf springs normally )but i couldnt get a good weld to take without endeing up burning up where blade went .. tried twice then rethought my prosess .. by starting with a round piece of stock it was much easyier .. and after looking at the originals it is the more likeley .. there are NO viable marks to show where it was welded and it is pretty rusted ... usually forge welds show with rust .. so i pretty sure i got the right prosess and it is defenetly the easyier and more in keeping with the old way of working ( a lot of original colonial era stuff it is hard to tell what the parent stock was ). well keep hammering and have fun

[jake pogrebinsky]

Yep,those are all tough issues.Welding a collar can be quite tough.On the transition,as well as the socket,it being so thin.Brazing was used,historically,but so was welding.Many old methods depended on the type of material.People long ago,starting from bloom,had the advantage of all the slag inclisions acting as flux.But it was a tremendous workout to get that chunk of bloom anywhere near the final forging stage.It had to be "refined" for hours,till intermixed very fine.Most of our wrought iron,like the Navy grade of the 40-ies or so,is still too coarse.

[Charlotte]

Jake, Thanks for showing your work, and thank you for the Link to the old stye Nordhordland axes. It confirmed something that I've been told but never had seen evidence for: The "american" axe was more strongly influenced by the Scandenivan settlers in the northern woods than from any other single source. The extra material behind the eye and the curved handle allowing a more ergonmic swing are feature not present in early english and french axes to the best of my knowledge and belief. I have not investigated the relationship but really report what I have read and been told about axe evoulution.

The early Russian axe is a real beauty and a great reminder that early Iron work was done by people at least as smart and skilled as any living today working with fewer tools to produce works that most today would not trouble to equal even if they could.

Thank you for your contributions

[jake pogrebinsky]

Hi,Charlotte,great to hear of your interest in the subject.Frankly,the info available to us nowadays,is so vast,that it's tough to incur anything definite...It seems to me,that the American axe(made locally or imported),kept gaining in poll weight,and becoming more narrow in profile,as the 1800's wore on.Makes sense,as the trees were large,and the amount of wood in chopping the V-notch felling can add up in a hurry.
Most of those Norsk axes in the link above are,however,"broad",or hewing axes,single-bevel like other ww chisels.American hewing strategies also did not stand still,and many styles of those tools became obsolete after a short time here.The goose-wing is typical of that.
There's a huge number of factors.One of the most confusing(for me)is that in 1700' and 1800's both, HUGE quantities of cheap,often nasty,imports from the manufacturies in England and Germany,were being brought to the States(Home Depot of the time-some things never change).
But the type of work,the type of metal available,and much more,had a bearing on the tool design.
That old Ukranian axe was made by people poor in ore and charcoal both-but rich in agriculture and time.So building not for trade,and not worrying about making steel,they cementated the edge,vs the welded-in bit,the design of the whole reflecting it.Bogdan,in his experiments,manages to case-harden the edge to the depth often exeeding that of the steeled tools,in his cooking fires,of an evening,in a clay box full of coal dust,as he cooks his grub in the same time.
Just rambling,sorry for the longwinded and unfocused thoughts...