Steve Sells Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) From Knife chat April 3, 1009 [brucegodlesky] Has anyone run into L6 steel in finished form and what was it? I mean was iot a saw blade? [Rich Hale] Yes saw blade [brucegodlesky]what type of saw blade [Rich Hale] Band saw [steve sells] Estwing uses L6 in their claw hammers [brucegodlesky] now thats interesting [steve sells] a steel mill here uses 10 foot circular sawblades [steve sells] a few large band saw blands use L6 [steve sells] Crucible only makes L6 in rounds, while Timken make them in flats, min 3/8 inch thick and they use a different mix. .25 less nickel and about .10 less moly [Rich Hale] If round blades have carbide teeth they are not likely L-6, I get 15n20 in flat bar stock from K and G [steve sells] NO but the steel mill isnt carbide, its 5/8 inch thick that get re sharpened every few hours, they have a stack they rotate [Rich Hale] I would use that Bruce [brucegodlesky] they use carbide tips [steve sells] L6 can be a problem to work, it like to air harden for one, it like to crack it hit outside about a 250F temp range, I love it and deal with the problems, but not a beginner steel tho, Remember L6 never hit from black heat to 1600F as it WILL shatter, may be only micro cracks, but its a gonner, welding heat is fine, but too hot and it crumbles like O1, forge 1650f to 1800f is best [Rich Hale] Interesting [sfDuck] would a planner blade be then [Rich Hale] D-2 I think Duck [brucegodlesky] only time I thought I had some old time l6 was in dragsaw blades. [steve sells] S series. D series 10xx series. even 13xx or 15xx, very old ones could be O2 of F-1 [Rich Hale] Bruce if you want any just order new 15n20 [brucegodlesky] I have a bunch Rich [steve sells] D series replace most uses for O2 one reason its not made in the US anymore I think, but not sure [brucegodlesky] Reason I asked, L6 air hardens and can be difficult to anneal correct? [steve sells] yup most the time I sub critical anneal its in my advanced annealing sticky [brucegodlesky] I did a favor for a customer and forged a blade from a chisel. Dang thing wanted to air harden on me [Rich Hale] I don't I have used L-6 and 15n20 they are the same as far as what I do with them [brucegodlesky] heirloom old [steve sells] F series, no longer made uses Tungston modern steel prefer Vanadium, so F series Bye bye [Rich Hale] Bruce what do you use to anneal in? [brucegodlesky] vermiculite in an insulated box [Rich Hale] Same here [m_brothers] I thought vermiculite could insulate on its own? what made me think it might be L6 was the air hardening and the difficulty annealing [Rich Hale] One of the charts show sears wrenches and some auto camshafts as L-6 have not triedthose [sfDuck] I've been using hardwood ash to anneal in but it does not always work [brucegodlesky] when I worked with it, it reminded me of the old dragsaws I used to use [Rich Hale] I hate things that work part time except for me [brucegodlesky] whatever it is, it's a heckuva good cutter!!! [Rich Hale] Ya done good [steve sells] thats what matters Bruce [brucegodlesky] I actually got 2 blades outta it. He doesn't know he's getting ther seconmd one, made a good trade [steve sells] I got an order todayu got a billet of o1 l6 and a 3rd for color contrast [brucegodlesky] : whatcha gonna use steve for the third? [steve sells] my o-1 dont have any nickel. med level of chrome so I can get a dark etch over time,. but a short etch gives a nice gray color, I was thinking my 1090 [Rich Hale] Thin nickel [brucegodlesky] that will keep the C up [steve sells] as it has .87C and 0.025 va BUT its got 0.90 Mn so its very dark etch, Client said 3rd steel for hardening, not nickel in the quote, I do have 201 nickel sheet. I got this from Aldo, I looked up the specs. They say this is classified as 1090 I was thinking its 1087 but found it listed. as Mn 0.3 for 1087 the 1090 is listed as .9 Mn. : anyway its very dark from what I have seen so far [Rich Hale] Hope the wind lets u tomorrow so I can heat treat these two blades [steve sells] which is good as I know people using the O-1 flavor that wat a little nickel as thelight layer with 1095... bruce is outside for heat treat? [brucegodlesky] open air shop, 5 ft walls [Rich Hale] I like a wee bit of nickel for contrast [brucegodlesky] I posted a picture this week of a high layer blade. Used a piece of handsaw in it and it come out almost white [Rich Hale] Cool [sfDuck] Todd what was your recipe that you showed earlier [steve sells] what have the rest of you been making ? [m_brothers] mono steel, small hunter [steve sells] : ok john what steel are you using? how does that feel compared to teh RR spike y ou started with >? [m_brothers] 1075, the guy couldn't remember if it was 1070 or 1075 from the knife show a little bit harder, but still forges like butter, compared to the lawnmower blade blanks that i got, it's mild.[brucegodlesky] really don't think you'll notice a difference john [jahpoboy] Are mower blades any good for knives? [steve sells] some are [brucegodlesky] mebbe for practice [steve sells] I was thinking RR spikes He has been using vs a bar of new steel, its consistency [sfDuck] What steel are lawn mower baldes [steve sells] you tell us Duck, hard to tell with any found steels. [jahpoboy] I know you can break one if you hit a big enough rock [Rich Hale] The ones i take off my riding mower are ruined steel [m_brothers] the lawn mower blades came right from there rolls of blade stock, cuz my aunt is a higher-up there, and got a me a tour of everything, and they let me go scrounging in there drop bin of some crazy named steel, but he said HT like a higher carbon 10xx series......haven't made a knife from it yet. The blade stock was used for the blades in a combine that chop up corn [sfDuck] I found them hard to work so left them for boot scapers [m_brothers] depending on how those pieces go, i might go back and get more [brucegodlesky] ya mean a flail type blade? [steve sells] besides the fact of not knowing what a used steel is, you have to ask , Why isn't in use as intended anymore ? [m_brothers]: they do a lot of cold forming, only have two gas forges for hot forming, and these are pieces that werent the right size, like a inch short, etc.. [JJ] bottom line is...if you make for your own use you can use an y junk steel...but if you sell it there is too much liability in anything but NEW steel. [m_brothers] it is NEW STEEL [JJ] i understand john , b ut you are in a uniquew position...my c omments are for general consumption [steve sells] we can only try JJ. no one remembers and wants to use old found stuff anyway, then later expect us to tell them how to heat treat it LOL [JJ] yes steve...heat treat a steel you have know idea what it is? right. [m_brothers] for my birthday, im geting some 1084 and 15n20 from K & G. next subject? [JJ] john, use a piece of fire hose around the blade when you do your b end test. be safe. [steve sells] any one having any particular troubles with blades ? every thing going well for you so far? [m_brothers] of course i am! [steve sells] JJ has been making a few lately from what I hear [JJ] having trouble getting good close up pics. can't figure out the camera. [steve sells] ask a neighbor kid.... [brucegodlesky] hehehehe [JJ] steve, i only do about 30 a yer. i've just been on a good order b last lately. [steve sells] that how I figured out the FIOS when we got it 2 years ago Edited June 9, 2009 by mod07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 [m_brothers] I am having trouble when i finish the knife, like final forging, when im finishing up the straightening, i always manage to get it pretty straight, but then after HT, i get a small curve or bend in the middle of the blades, always. don't know if i dont put the blade in the quench straight, etc.. [Rich Hale] Do you normalize? [m_brothers] yes, three times. [steve sells] normalizing fixes that MOST the time. straight and not causing warp it by moving the blade around too soon in the quench. [brucegodlesky] on the edge or the whole blade [m_brothers] : from edge to about 1" or so up from edge. [Rich Hale] What size is your quench tankand do yoou warm the oil? [JJ] i use a vertical rack for normalizin g and for cooling after quench. knife lays horizontal to longitudinal axis and sits vertical to b lade spine axis. [m_brothers] quench tank is an old large spray paint can with the top cut off, with old motor oil. [JJ] i cut grooves in light weight fire brick, which i heat prior to normalizi ng. [m_brothers] i heat it with a rr spike, that i've named the hot hand, because i put it in, and take it out, repeat until, the oil is hot to the touch and i go into the quench tank blade edge first. [brucegodlesky] might be heating that blade unevenly [m_brothers] i quench vertically [JJ] that will cause a bend as front is cooling rapidly while back is v ery hot. [m_brothers] with the gasser, even though its an even heat, i still move it back and forth until its as evenly heated as possible, to my ability no bend in front, i mean if you lay the knife on its spine like this: [Rich Hale] A lot of folks have that touble and it seems to persist..and after a 100 blades or so it just goes away [m_brothers] and you look at it, it looks like this: ( but way slighter [JJ] ok, it's the uneven heats in both those steps, like Rich suspected. [m_brothers] so it's just my experience and ability most likely? [Rich Hale] Might be [garey] try doing the quench horizontaly . get a different quench tank. [steve sells] even a gasser needs the blade turned to even th eheat [JJ] i didn't think about it til t his question came up...b ut i use to get bends liek that oo...have not in several years to any extent. i use to do vertical quenc h. [garey] i like to put the edge in all at the same time horizontaly [JJ] i bent a sculpture today b y oil quenching vertically. took half an hour to fix it. [Rich Hale] I do point first as it loses heat the fastes...but not sure it loes tat much [m_brothers] isn't only a edge quench though [Rich Hale] One key for sure is o may areal quick trip from fire to oil [sfDuck] : If you put a thermometer in the oil what range would be best [m_brothers] i think 120F, but i think i might be wrong [Rich Hale] I use atf at 110f to 120f [JJ] tip does go in first, but then the quench follows the blade line flat down....if that makes any sense. [steve sells] hot to touch for the start of quenching [garey] i uase cooking oil from the catfish joint heated to about 180 / 200 F. and it drives the cats crazy when i quench in it [steve sells] maybe 120 to 150F [m_brothers] i understand jj, but isn't that still an edge quench [steve sells] I dont use it after it reaches 180 unless I am austempering [JJ] i have found tha twith 10 gallon oil pot, right tempt is to heat a 3 lb hammer head, quench in t he oil. then it's ready. [brucegodlesky] not if you submerge the whole blade [m_brothers] or is it deep enough, to quench the whole blade? [Rich Hale] I got some from cooking a turkey grey peanut oil when I get new tank doen will switch to it... [steve sells] edge quench is just that, only edge hardened. try to stay with full quenching at first til ya get that covered well [brucegodlesky] I like vet grade mineral oil [JJ] John, you may b e missing the point...we are not talking ab out edge only quen ch...talking about what part of the knife should go into the oil first. [steve sells] i have a 2.5 gal quench [JJ] i use a commercial quench oil [m_brothers]so should i set up a horizontal quench? [JJ] that just means it has a high flash point. [Rich Hale] Use what you got [garey] a little oil fire dont hurt any:) just close the lid and snuff it out. LOL! [brucegodlesky] I had problems with peanut oil [steve sells] I used only 30 wt and tranny fluid for years just fine [Rich Hale] Wot kind Bruce? [steve sells] veggie oils now, some times mineral oil [JJ] i used to use what came out of my diesel engine...til i got sick of the smell [brucegodlesky] plain old peanut oil [Rich Hale] Wot kind of problems? [brucegodlesky] some stuff wouldn't harden fully [brucegodlesky] 52100 [Rich Hale] Known steel? [brucegodlesky] yep [Rich Hale] I will try this with that in mind [JJ] wow...i air harden 52100 [brucegodlesky] with plates JJ [steve sells] plates? [JJ] plates? [sfDuck] I have a 30 gal press tank with feet on it, and it was a a pretty red colour, just cut the top off it and it has a plug outlet in the bottom. With old motor oil and a bit of tranny fluid [brucegodlesky] quench plates [steve sells] what are those? I dont know that term [Rich Hale] I use quench plates for sheep horn [brucegodlesky] 2 half inch thick aluminum plates [steve sells] as a heat sink ? [JJ] used as a heat sink? [garey] boil and squeeze press to flatten Rich? [Rich Hale] Yes for what I do [JJ] steve, quit reading my mind! [brucegodlesky] I seen it done with, I believe, A2 [steve sells] : ok I am a yankee never call them that LOL [Rich Hale] Heat in oven the press them between two aluminum plates,,,,and I only use stablilied [garey] i made some scales from a old goat horn. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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