Steve Sells Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) From Knife chat April 3, 1009 [brucegodlesky] Has anyone run into L6 steel in finished form and what was it? I mean was iot a saw blade? [Rich Hale] Yes saw blade [brucegodlesky]what type of saw blade [Rich Hale] Band saw [steve sells] Estwing uses L6 in their claw hammers [brucegodlesky] now thats interesting [steve sells] a steel mill here uses 10 foot circular sawblades [steve sells] a few large band saw blands use L6 [steve sells] Crucible only makes L6 in rounds, while Timken make them in flats, min 3/8 inch thick and they use a different mix. .25 less nickel and about .10 less moly [Rich Hale] If round blades have carbide teeth they are not likely L-6, I get 15n20 in flat bar stock from K and G [steve sells] NO but the steel mill isnt carbide, its 5/8 inch thick that get re sharpened every few hours, they have a stack they rotate [Rich Hale] I would use that Bruce [brucegodlesky] they use carbide tips [steve sells] L6 can be a problem to work, it like to air harden for one, it like to crack it hit outside about a 250F temp range, I love it and deal with the problems, but not a beginner steel tho, Remember L6 never hit from black heat to 1600F as it WILL shatter, may be only micro cracks, but its a gonner, welding heat is fine, but too hot and it crumbles like O1, forge 1650f to 1800f is best [Rich Hale] Interesting [sfDuck] would a planner blade be then [Rich Hale] D-2 I think Duck [brucegodlesky] only time I thought I had some old time l6 was in dragsaw blades. [steve sells] S series. D series 10xx series. even 13xx or 15xx, very old ones could be O2 of F-1 [Rich Hale] Bruce if you want any just order new 15n20 [brucegodlesky] I have a bunch Rich [steve sells] D series replace most uses for O2 one reason its not made in the US anymore I think, but not sure [brucegodlesky] Reason I asked, L6 air hardens and can be difficult to anneal correct? [steve sells] yup most the time I sub critical anneal its in my advanced annealing sticky [brucegodlesky] I did a favor for a customer and forged a blade from a chisel. Dang thing wanted to air harden on me [Rich Hale] I don't I have used L-6 and 15n20 they are the same as far as what I do with them [brucegodlesky] heirloom old [steve sells] F series, no longer made uses Tungston modern steel prefer Vanadium, so F series Bye bye [Rich Hale] Bruce what do you use to anneal in? [brucegodlesky] vermiculite in an insulated box [Rich Hale] Same here [m_brothers] I thought vermiculite could insulate on its own? what made me think it might be L6 was the air hardening and the difficulty annealing [Rich Hale] One of the charts show sears wrenches and some auto camshafts as L-6 have not triedthose [sfDuck] I've been using hardwood ash to anneal in but it does not always work [brucegodlesky] when I worked with it, it reminded me of the old dragsaws I used to use [Rich Hale] I hate things that work part time except for me [brucegodlesky] whatever it is, it's a heckuva good cutter!!! [Rich Hale] Ya done good [steve sells] thats what matters Bruce [brucegodlesky] I actually got 2 blades outta it. He doesn't know he's getting ther seconmd one, made a good trade [steve sells] I got an order todayu got a billet of o1 l6 and a 3rd for color contrast [brucegodlesky] : whatcha gonna use steve for the third? [steve sells] my o-1 dont have any nickel. med level of chrome so I can get a dark etch over time,. but a short etch gives a nice gray color, I was thinking my 1090 [Rich Hale] Thin nickel [brucegodlesky] that will keep the C up [steve sells] as it has .87C and 0.025 va BUT its got 0.90 Mn so its very dark etch, Client said 3rd steel for hardening, not nickel in the quote, I do have 201 nickel sheet. I got this from Aldo, I looked up the specs. They say this is classified as 1090 I was thinking its 1087 but found it listed. as Mn 0.3 for 1087 the 1090 is listed as .9 Mn. : anyway its very dark from what I have seen so far [Rich Hale] Hope the wind lets u tomorrow so I can heat treat these two blades [steve sells] which is good as I know people using the O-1 flavor that wat a little nickel as thelight layer with 1095... bruce is outside for heat treat? [brucegodlesky] open air shop, 5 ft walls [Rich Hale] I like a wee bit of nickel for contrast [brucegodlesky] I posted a picture this week of a high layer blade. Used a piece of handsaw in it and it come out almost white [Rich Hale] Cool [sfDuck] Todd what was your recipe that you showed earlier [steve sells] what have the rest of you been making ? [m_brothers] mono steel, small hunter [steve sells] : ok john what steel are you using? how does that feel compared to teh RR spike y ou started with >? [m_brothers] 1075, the guy couldn't remember if it was 1070 or 1075 from the knife show a little bit harder, but still forges like butter, compared to the lawnmower blade blanks that i got, it's mild.[brucegodlesky] really don't think you'll notice a difference john [jahpoboy] Are mower blades any good for knives? [steve sells] some are [brucegodlesky] mebbe for practice [steve sells] I was thinking RR spikes He has been using vs a bar of new steel, its consistency [sfDuck] What steel are lawn mower baldes [steve sells] you tell us Duck, hard to tell with any found steels. [jahpoboy] I know you can break one if you hit a big enough rock [Rich Hale] The ones i take off my riding mower are ruined steel [m_brothers] the lawn mower blades came right from there rolls of blade stock, cuz my aunt is a higher-up there, and got a me a tour of everything, and they let me go scrounging in there drop bin of some crazy named steel, but he said HT like a higher carbon 10xx series......haven't made a knife from it yet. The blade stock was used for the blades in a combine that chop up corn [sfDuck] I found them hard to work so left them for boot scapers [m_brothers] depending on how those pieces go, i might go back and get more [brucegodlesky] ya mean a flail type blade? [steve sells] besides the fact of not knowing what a used steel is, you have to ask , Why isn't in use as intended anymore ? [m_brothers]: they do a lot of cold forming, only have two gas forges for hot forming, and these are pieces that werent the right size, like a inch short, etc.. [JJ] bottom line is...if you make for your own use you can use an y junk steel...but if you sell it there is too much liability in anything but NEW steel. [m_brothers] it is NEW STEEL [JJ] i understand john , b ut you are in a uniquew position...my c omments are for general consumption [steve sells] we can only try JJ. no one remembers and wants to use old found stuff anyway, then later expect us to tell them how to heat treat it LOL [JJ] yes steve...heat treat a steel you have know idea what it is? right. [m_brothers] for my birthday, im geting some 1084 and 15n20 from K & G. next subject? [JJ] john, use a piece of fire hose around the blade when you do your b end test. be safe. [steve sells] any one having any particular troubles with blades ? every thing going well for you so far? [m_brothers] of course i am! [steve sells] JJ has been making a few lately from what I hear [JJ] having trouble getting good close up pics. can't figure out the camera. [steve sells] ask a neighbor kid.... [brucegodlesky] hehehehe [JJ] steve, i only do about 30 a yer. i've just been on a good order b last lately. [steve sells] that how I figured out the FIOS when we got it 2 years ago Edited June 9, 2009 by mod07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted April 4, 2009 Author Share Posted April 4, 2009 [m_brothers] I am having trouble when i finish the knife, like final forging, when im finishing up the straightening, i always manage to get it pretty straight, but then after HT, i get a small curve or bend in the middle of the blades, always. don't know if i dont put the blade in the quench straight, etc.. [Rich Hale] Do you normalize? [m_brothers] yes, three times. [steve sells] normalizing fixes that MOST the time. straight and not causing warp it by moving the blade around too soon in the quench. [brucegodlesky] on the edge or the whole blade [m_brothers] : from edge to about 1" or so up from edge. [Rich Hale] What size is your quench tankand do yoou warm the oil? [JJ] i use a vertical rack for normalizin g and for cooling after quench. knife lays horizontal to longitudinal axis and sits vertical to b lade spine axis. [m_brothers] quench tank is an old large spray paint can with the top cut off, with old motor oil. [JJ] i cut grooves in light weight fire brick, which i heat prior to normalizi ng. [m_brothers] i heat it with a rr spike, that i've named the hot hand, because i put it in, and take it out, repeat until, the oil is hot to the touch and i go into the quench tank blade edge first. [brucegodlesky] might be heating that blade unevenly [m_brothers] i quench vertically [JJ] that will cause a bend as front is cooling rapidly while back is v ery hot. [m_brothers] with the gasser, even though its an even heat, i still move it back and forth until its as evenly heated as possible, to my ability no bend in front, i mean if you lay the knife on its spine like this: [Rich Hale] A lot of folks have that touble and it seems to persist..and after a 100 blades or so it just goes away [m_brothers] and you look at it, it looks like this: ( but way slighter [JJ] ok, it's the uneven heats in both those steps, like Rich suspected. [m_brothers] so it's just my experience and ability most likely? [Rich Hale] Might be [garey] try doing the quench horizontaly . get a different quench tank. [steve sells] even a gasser needs the blade turned to even th eheat [JJ] i didn't think about it til t his question came up...b ut i use to get bends liek that oo...have not in several years to any extent. i use to do vertical quenc h. [garey] i like to put the edge in all at the same time horizontaly [JJ] i bent a sculpture today b y oil quenching vertically. took half an hour to fix it. [Rich Hale] I do point first as it loses heat the fastes...but not sure it loes tat much [m_brothers] isn't only a edge quench though [Rich Hale] One key for sure is o may areal quick trip from fire to oil [sfDuck] : If you put a thermometer in the oil what range would be best [m_brothers] i think 120F, but i think i might be wrong [Rich Hale] I use atf at 110f to 120f [JJ] tip does go in first, but then the quench follows the blade line flat down....if that makes any sense. [steve sells] hot to touch for the start of quenching [garey] i uase cooking oil from the catfish joint heated to about 180 / 200 F. and it drives the cats crazy when i quench in it [steve sells] maybe 120 to 150F [m_brothers] i understand jj, but isn't that still an edge quench [steve sells] I dont use it after it reaches 180 unless I am austempering [JJ] i have found tha twith 10 gallon oil pot, right tempt is to heat a 3 lb hammer head, quench in t he oil. then it's ready. [brucegodlesky] not if you submerge the whole blade [m_brothers] or is it deep enough, to quench the whole blade? [Rich Hale] I got some from cooking a turkey grey peanut oil when I get new tank doen will switch to it... [steve sells] edge quench is just that, only edge hardened. try to stay with full quenching at first til ya get that covered well [brucegodlesky] I like vet grade mineral oil [JJ] John, you may b e missing the point...we are not talking ab out edge only quen ch...talking about what part of the knife should go into the oil first. [steve sells] i have a 2.5 gal quench [JJ] i use a commercial quench oil [m_brothers]so should i set up a horizontal quench? [JJ] that just means it has a high flash point. [Rich Hale] Use what you got [garey] a little oil fire dont hurt any:) just close the lid and snuff it out. LOL! [brucegodlesky] I had problems with peanut oil [steve sells] I used only 30 wt and tranny fluid for years just fine [Rich Hale] Wot kind Bruce? [steve sells] veggie oils now, some times mineral oil [JJ] i used to use what came out of my diesel engine...til i got sick of the smell [brucegodlesky] plain old peanut oil [Rich Hale] Wot kind of problems? [brucegodlesky] some stuff wouldn't harden fully [brucegodlesky] 52100 [Rich Hale] Known steel? [brucegodlesky] yep [Rich Hale] I will try this with that in mind [JJ] wow...i air harden 52100 [brucegodlesky] with plates JJ [steve sells] plates? [JJ] plates? [sfDuck] I have a 30 gal press tank with feet on it, and it was a a pretty red colour, just cut the top off it and it has a plug outlet in the bottom. With old motor oil and a bit of tranny fluid [brucegodlesky] quench plates [steve sells] what are those? I dont know that term [Rich Hale] I use quench plates for sheep horn [brucegodlesky] 2 half inch thick aluminum plates [steve sells] as a heat sink ? [JJ] used as a heat sink? [garey] boil and squeeze press to flatten Rich? [Rich Hale] Yes for what I do [JJ] steve, quit reading my mind! [brucegodlesky] I seen it done with, I believe, A2 [steve sells] : ok I am a yankee never call them that LOL [Rich Hale] Heat in oven the press them between two aluminum plates,,,,and I only use stablilied [garey] i made some scales from a old goat horn. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now