Strine

Glenn, For a bit of fun amongst us blokes that think we know what we're doing I suggest a series of member photos. The scenerio being that if you're stoney broke with no tools except what you could borrow from your "handyman" neighbour's kitchen drawer what would you come up with as a forge. The next time someone like Archie asks how to build a forge..... Yes, the 55 forge is good but needs just too much skill and resources for what I'm thinking :)

'Tis interesting how we all have a different opinion. I pity the poor fellow who has to decide which is the best one to follow. And here's mine. OWF, The idea of the direction of the growth rings is at odds with mine by 90 degrees. My theory is that the bending strength of a length of wood is greater parallel to the growth rings. Your idea says that the handle is more "lively" and I take that to mean wore whippy if the rings are cross ways. That seems very reasonable and I might give it a go on my next handle. But as with anything there is a compromise. May I suggest that your compromise is in the strength of handle and if we are offereing suggestions to a novice who's aim might not win him a dart comp yet, strength in the handle could well be an important consideration. All that notwithstanding I mightn't win a dart comp in a million years but my aim at the anvil is good enough (yes...self praise is no recommendation) and based on your experience and the way I swing a hammer I will definitely give the cross ways growth rings a go. Thanks for the tip. Also when ever I'm down the hardware shop I look at the handles. The number of handles that would fit either your or my criteria amount to about 2%. Some boffin has decided that all handles should have diagonal rings. Is that the compromise between lateral and logitudinal rings? :wink:

Maybe this doesn't relate much to hammer control but the talk of hammers reminded me of this incident. I began blacksmithing like a lot of us have and a lot more of should by getting in with a crowd of them in a guild or association. Admittedly I was pretty green but really keen. One of the old smiths that had been at it for more years than he wanted to admit struck up a conversation with 'the new bloke' He asked what I did for a living. I told him I'd been in the land surveying game since I was fourteen. He obviously had a two things on his mind. The first was the direction he would like the club to go in and the second that if you hadn't spent all your life as a blacksmith there was very little you could offer the group. To him, surveying was as far removed from 'real work' as you could get. I didn't like where he was heading, especially in the way he asked whether or not I could swing a hammer. Having had enough of this grumpy old bloke I went out to the ute, grabbed a fourteen pounder and a couple of survey pegs...fourteen inches long 2" square. I then went in and grabbed this bloke and took him out to a well worn gravel pathway. Three hits and the peg was flush with the top of the path with not a scar on it. I then gave him the other peg and the hammer. He never spoke to me in such a derogatory manner again. But I didn't win. For sure I'd won his respect but that only meant he knew who to ask if he needed a reliable striker! :wink:

I would Fionnbharr

I'm in the no gloves camp. I just reckon if I have a glove on I lose all sense of touch...I can't feel what's happening. Besides I don't reckon they would have protected me from the burn to my face nor the burn to my leg. :oops: Both those occasions were due to stupidity not lack PPE. Oh..and I wouldn't hear of glove wearing as a sissy thing to do. If the glove fits, wear it. (Has it really taken 12 replies for that to come out )

There's bound to be a heap of valuable information in the references mentioned thus far and I bet there are a lot of good pictures in the ones I haven't seen. As we all know 'a picture is worth a thousand words' but surely a bit of hands on experience would be worth a lot more. Good luck with your new mate down the road IS.

G'don y' Archie, Make the pipe down the bottom at least 2 inches diam, make the hole in the clay a sort of upside down cone...2 or 3" inches at the bottom, about 5 inches high and about 8 or 9 inches across the top. You might need some hungry boards around the top of the box as it seems the fire is very close to the bottom of the box. Let the pipe go all the way through the box with a cap on the end. where the clay hole (duck's nest) meets the pipe, drill 6 or 7 3/8 holes in an interesting pattern. It seems there's too much fire for the size of the air holes. For what it's worth that's what I'd do. But I'm only me and I make my fair share of useless prototypes.

Archie I was going to wax lirical about the best type of clay for your forge having studied the soil profiles of the Salem area. By my reckoning the best clay for your purpose will come from the.....Hang on, wait a minute, hold your horses, enough is enough. I'm going to keep mum until I see hard evidence of the progress of your efforts so far. You promised us pictures. I want pictures. I need pictures. I can't live without pictures. I must have pictures. No more words till the pictures arrive. Ahh come on Archie show us some pikkies. BTW I was kidding about my geological expertise. Just as any port will do in a storm, any clay will do in your first forge. :mrgreen:

Ten Hammers, Your mower has a battery???? Wow. My mower has a bloke that walks behind, he's always run down and in need of a good charge.

Yes you are probably right Glenn this may not be the appropriate forum to discuss topics which by the sound of it are far removed form blacksmithing, but let's not discourage Young Archie in his endeavours to achieve well at school. He may well have misinterpreted the "Non-Blacksmithing" tag. But you were very gentle in your request I'm not sure that Archie is advocating a method of raising children, merely "compiling" the stories that perhaps you and I or our parents were told in our youth. The purpose of the compilation seems a bit obscure and I bet there are a lot of other topics Archie could write about and still show Teach that he's mastering the Englich Language. Archie there are possibly a few forums around that discuss such things as you looking for other than this one. As for raising children I have to beg to differ Glenn, by about a third. I reckon you only have about 7 years to mould a child into the adult you'ld like him or her to be. And to relate it all back to blacksmithing. My son has accompanied me to most of my blacksmithing trips (demos, festivals etc) since he was about 4. I have never forced him into blacksmithing, just gave him every opportunity to get involved. It's not for me to decide what his hobby interest will be. Anyway as a result of these trips he has a terrific appreciation of what he can get into. He has mucked around with coopers, whip makers, traction engine enthusiasts, bush carpenters, shearers, spinners and weavers; the list goes on and on. His education has also benifited as has his general demeanour and confidence. Having to 'muscle in' on an adult discussion or whatever can be hard for a lad but he has found the gumption and managed. Strangely though his interest at the moment lies in juggling and riding a unicycle....what can you do eh :? So my opinion? If you want your son or daughter to follow your passion for bashing up hot metal. Let him come to it of his own accord, be glad that he has, but not sad that he hasn't!

I went to a stop work meeting once (a bunch of surveyors and engineers etc) and ended up with a leg vice for $50.

I was going to post this in the Tailgating section in response to Archie's dillemna about lack of funds. But it might be better in a new thread. It's directed at young Archie but you can all read it Archie, one way of obtaining gear is to let everyone know that you're really keen to get into this blacksmithing thing. Some will fob you off as wasting your time while others will recognise your enthusiasm and keep your interest in mind. You never know, your mate will tell his old man who might talk to his mate who might not have any need for the anvil laying out under a tree in the yard. My first hand cranked blower came from my old man. I thought I knew every piece of junk that he'd piled up (even hidden from prying eyes) but then one day he holds this thing up with "this any good to you?" My first reaction was "where have you been hiding that!?" Remember though that how far the message will travel is only relative to the enthusiasm you put behind it. Remember too that a good grounding in the three R's is going to be a big help to a budding smith. In other words I hope your homework is not being put aside so you can bash up hot metal. Here's some anyway; look up the word 'serendipity'....that's how you'll find a lot of your gear.

Archie; Don't tell me you've given up on the Archiebuilt forge

Dan, At work the other day I was accused in no small measure by my "mentor", a twenty three year old (I'm over fifty), that I had not enough common sense to solve a problem that I faced. What he was trying to tell me was that I did not have enough experience in the particular job and that he was sorry he had been lacking in his mentoring. My point is the amount of common sense we have is a measure of what we have learnt from our own experience or from the experience of others. We don't touch the hot plate on the stove because our mothers said "don't touch that it's hot" Hot? what on earth does that mean...we touch the stove and have a life experience to last for ever, ... our common sense is heightened. Your student has obviously missed out on the experience that would tell him he is an idiot if he proceeds. Is that his fault? or is he just adding to his common sense later than the rest of us. And to end this drivel, my mentor won't be accusing me of anything in the future :x . He will be respectfully pointing out that we both have a problem and and that between the two of us we will set things right. Fortunately for him the common sense I did have prevented me from flattening his nose.

Praise be the mother who let Conrad play with fire. This bloke is not mucking around, he is one serious contender. Thanks for the link Dan

Archie you might have to find a better relationship between the size of fire and size of stock. I would have thought mniscule and railway spike is not quite the right combination. But I bet your learning stuff by the truck load.

Archie, your enthusiasm beggars belief. Dogged determination is a good thing and I can see you outstripping all of us that have tried to help you get started in a very short time. I notice there is an unrevealed until now stipulation in your smithy that everything has to be archiebuilt. If that's the case your new bellows are staring you in the face. Take the little fireside bellows and study hard. If they were six feet long and about four feet across you'ld have a fair dinkum set of (single action) blacksmiths bellows. Check out http://www.hammerinhand.com/maxpages/Making_a_Bellows for double action bellows which are what you'ld more likely find in a 'ye olde' blacksmiths shop

And from this side of the puddle I wish that your commemorations go well. Lest we forget

Archie, Good on ya for having a go. Eric is right though. Have you noticed when you blow on a camp fire it goes better. You need to add air. As an idea of how much, the reverse air flow on your mum's vacuum cleaner is a good start, but please don't dob me in to your mum as the bloke who made this suggestion. Again I agree with Eric, a log on your camp fire will turn to charcoal and then to ash just from the air the fire sucks from the atmosphere. Adding extra air means the fire will burn more intensely and therefor hotter... just what you want. Once you get this extra heat your turkey pan will very quickly melt away so fixing one problem is going to create another. Seeing as how it's too wet to dig that hole what about a reasonable sized wooden box lined with the clay so that any of the wood is at least a foot away from the fire. (Yes I know, you other blokes, it's very primitive but we have to get young Archie up and running). Poke a bit of water pipe into the bottom of the fire hole in the clay and attach your air supply to it somehow. Above all Archie don't be discouraged, it's all part of the fun :lol:

Please pardon my ignorance but what is a duck bill anvil horn? If it's the pointy end of a normal anvil and you are using thin stock for your hooks, say 1/4" round, and it's hot (another presumption) then it should almost flop over the horn into a hook shape all by itself. If it doesn't you may need to give it a few taps with a hammer to coax it around the horn. Or consider this the final location of the hot piece of metal will assume the the average shape between the what's underneath it (the anvil) and what's on top (the hammer) and from what direction the top member has come from. And if your attempt at making hooks is frustrating, take solace in the fact that the results you're getting may well be exactly what you want sometime in the future. That's called "experience" I think.

I'm terribly sorry Mr Kowalsky for adding my two bobs worth. Consider this my last two bobs worth on the matter.

I'm flattered that you add the Mr, Archie I don't get it much and when I do it's usually in jest, anyway where I come from we don't stand on ceremony too much, Strine will do just fine. I'm in the south east corner of Australia, cobber.

Here Here, Ed

Archie, I see no shame in the hole in the ground forge. It would be a great thing to show your mates at school, something you've created out it. Why get tangled up with fancy contraptions that require resources not available to you at the moment and that will only consume the time that could have been used to actually forge something. When it all boils down all the "you beaut" forges you see are really just glorified holes in the ground raised up to a more convenient height. Personally I would be crippled with a hole in the ground because my back wouldn't cope but you are young and, no doubt, a lot more supple. I suppose I could easily dig another hole next to the forge hole to stand in. The point is you need a "container" to hold hot coals and a controllable supply of air into the container. All you need then is the imagination and enthusiasm to achieve what you have set out to achieve. I wish you every success. If I wasn't half a world away I'd be over at your place getting you started. Join a blacksmithing group too, that's bound to help a great deal. Good luck to you What about it fellas? Is someone living near the dead centre of Salem MA (where ever that is) that can lend Archie a hand and get him started in a pursuit that is desperate for younger participants.

Ralph, What then with the 2" sq? Cut off an 1/8" sliver with a plumbers hacksaw? Or would you file it down to shape with a horseshoe rasp. Jokes aside I wonder how big these feathers have to be pelican or sparrow?