Chris Pariso

Latticino - Funny enough, I use almost that exact same trick when roasting whole potatoes: put about a 1/2" layer of coarse kosher salt into a pan, preheat that in the oven, then lay your potatoes out in a single layer, pressing them down slightly into the salt. Same concept as the metal, it helps evenly distribute the heat, and prevent the heating element (usually on the bottom of ovens) from cooking the bottom faster than the top. Never thought to apply that to the tempering process, but it makes perfect sense. Thank you!

JME - ahh, basically adding an insulating layer to protect it from the direct heat... I like it. I might have to swing by the store on my way home, and get a cheap toaster/temper oven. I know my wife would appreciate not having the oven on for several hours at a stretch, especially in this heat! Thanks for the tip!

Toaster oven isn't a bad idea at all... Now, is there any danger of the knife being too close to the heating coils in a small toaster oven, and being brought to a temp a lot higher than what it should be for tempering?

Lou, I think one of the things that I read was referencing that article by Caffrey - the information matches what I was seeing. I completely agree, too, that backyard setups like ours probably can't reach the full potential of a test done under (essentially) laboratory conditions. Oh, and I did use a magnet to identify the color, as close as I could tell, when the steel became non-magnetic, then took it just slightly brighter. Between that, and looking at the changes in color between temperatures on a scale that I looked up, I was able to gauge things (I know color scales on a screen can be inaccurate, so I was more focused on change in shade/brightness from one temp to another, rather than the actual color shown on the scale). Thomas, Thank you for the info. Now a day later, would I still be able to unwrap the blade and put it into the oven for two more tempering cycles, or does that have to be done immediately after hardening to have the desired effect?

Thomas, From the reading I had done, multiple quenches could help overcome some of the potential shortcomings from not having a time/temp controlled furnace for soak the metal at its critical temp. That said, it seems like everyone has their own secret sauce for heat treating any given steel, so I figured I would end up trying and testing a number of different processes before I found a winning combination. Take detailed notes, fire, and adjust. That said, I will definitely try what you said for my wife's blade. When tempering multiple times, do you pull the piece out of the oven, let it cool to room temp, then pop it back in for another hour? Or is the wait between heats longer?

Lou - I didn't want my wife's gift to be the first piece of steel I attempted to heat treat, so I spent part of yesterday pounding out a utility blade for myself to use as a tester. After I was done hammering it, I normalized three times, then started filing/grinding to get the final profile. That finished up around 10am, and I waited until about 8pm that night to do the quench. Heated to what looked like the right temp, held it there for a few minutes, and quenched in 130f canola oil. I did this twice, then immediately tempered at 385f for one hour. No bends, warps, cracks, or anything else that I could see, and a file I used earlier to clean up the profile skated right off of it once everything was said and done. Granted, this is a single data point, but it seems like waiting between normalizing and quenching/tempering wasn't an issue at all. Of course, this is also the first time I've taken a piece of metal from stock to knife, and the first time I've heat treated anything, so it could just be beginners luck! Either way, after a quick paracord wrap and some time on the whetstone, I have myself a new beater utility knife that I'm pretty happy with. Going to take lessons learned from this one, and try to finish my wife's blade this weekend. Thanks again to everyone for the advice!

Hey everyone, I just realized I dove right into firing off questions on the forum without properly introducing myself first. As the title says, I'm living in Connecticut, down by the New York border. I just started smithing a couple of weeks ago, with the forge setup being a gift from my wife for my first Father's Day as an actual dad. It's a simple setup - one propane burner, a bunch of hard fire bricks, and a 50lb block of cast iron - but it's working well enough so far. As far as why I'd start doing something more addictive than crack and triple the cost, I've always had the mindset that if you can't find exactly what you're looking for, make it yourself. Wood, leather, carpentry... I even learned two different programming languages, because I couldn't find software to do what I needed. That said, I spent over 11 years working in professional kitchens as a pastry chef, and have been cooking since I was tall enough to reach the counter. It was only a matter of time before I started making my own kitchen knives from scratch, rather than just buying blanks and putting handles on them. I've also trained in a variety of martial arts, including a few that are heavily blade-focused, for nearly two decades, but I think it will be a long time before I make a knife for those purposes. If I'm going to make something that a life could potentially rely on, I want to be absolutely sure it's not going to fail because I screwed something up.

Lou - New England represent! I'm in CT by way of New Hampshire, and happy to run into anyone from the North East. I haven't yet joined the guild, as I just finished setting up my forge about three weeks ago (bought everything as a gift for my first Father's Day). Good to know about the color of 5160, too - I plan on giving the heat treat a shot some time this week, so I'll definitely keep that in mind. Latticino - Canola was the plan, and thank you for the advice on speed and preheat temps. I spent about 11 years as a professional baker/pastry chef, so getting everything prepped and ready to go before the oven (forge) is kicked on is standard procedure for me. Mise en place is just as important in the smithy as the kitchen, I'm finding.

JHCC, The answer was what I hoped it would be, so all is forgiven. Once the project is all said and done, I'll be sure to let everyone know how it came out.

Steve and JHCC, That is exactly what I was hoping to hear - thank you! Also, this went from asked to answered in under 3 minutes... that has to be close to a record, right?

Hey all, I have a piece of 5160 (purchased as such - not scrapped leaf spring) that I am making a small hiking/utility blade out of for my wife. For all the reading and research I've done on the heat treating process, there is one thing that I have not yet found a definitive answer on: if I do three cycles of normalizing, would there be any detriment to the steel if I did not immediately follow it up by heating and quenching it? That is, if I wait to do the quenching until a few hours later (when it's dark enough to see the color of the steel), or a few days later, would I be introducing any potential issues into the final product? Worth noting: I'm a complete novice in the entire blacksmithing world, operating with the simplest of equipment, and learning as I go (well, trying to learn *before* I go). I know sending the steel out for heat treat is optimum, but by that rational, purchasing the knife would be better than making it. I appreciate any thoughts or advice you're willing to share!