Obert

After a long wait I have finally received some usefull and constructive replays and I would like to thank the contributors. So, thank you. I come from the Balkans region that is in Europe. I have been fortunate to have been born in a place and time of peace, wealth and awe striking natural beauty. I have no idea who should I thank for this if anyone at all, but thank you. And the most famous person that came from these parts of the world was Nikola Tesla. The very man whose brilliance contributed in a big way to the comfortable ways of our present lifestyle. I have nothing but immeasurable respect and admiration for this giant of man. I have watched the video you have linked and its first part as well. They have reasured me that this task can be accomplished with simple means and some labour of love. Thank you. Coal forge would be great and I have considered it before but the location I spoke of is publicly owned and no open fires are allowed. I plan to execute this operation as incognito as possible and without causing harm to the environment, not because its a rule but because it makes sense. And even if someone was to report the unusual activity and the police showed up to investigate I am confident that I could reason with them, because the police around my parts are very reasonable folks, that I can say from experience since I have dealt with them on many occasions or rather they have dealt with me, but allways fairly. Thomas – well, that is somewhat disheartening, that you think the small “waterfall” I have at my disposal will be insufficient. May I ask you for your thoughts on the quenching procedure in the video that Marc has provided a link to. In my research I have been lead to believe that quenching an anvil by submerging it in stale water will not produce desired result and worse than that even, the anvil would be at risk of developing cracks. And jet, the man in the video appears to have done just that (he did wiggle it about some though) and with what seems be some good results. Would perhaps placing an anvil face down in to the stream so that only the face is submerged yield better results in your opinion. This would be another option for me. The water is about knee deep and flowing with such force that it is challenging for me to hold my footing when threading it and a smaller person would be swept off their feet. It is an alpine stream. Also, I would like to clarifiy that while I am aiming for the optimum results (always and in any matter) I am also realistic enough to be satisfied with mediocre outcome and not be disheartened even by complete failure. Thank you for your contribution. BeaverNZ I have looked up the electrodes you have used with success and they are practically the same as the ones I have described in my first post. So thank you for your reassurance in this particular matter. Also, what does the “draw of rail” mean? As For the quantity of propane needed for the task at hand I have my doubts as well, but acquiring expensive (to me) new equipment that I will likely have use for only this one time is unfortunately not an option at the moment. Same goes for a better insulating material. But, there shall be no despair… I have since decided to turn to science for help. And therefor I have dabbled a bit in the physics of the matter at hand. And even though I realize the results are nowhere near conclusive nor necessarily correct, as I am no physicist and there are surely many contributing factors that I havent even thought of. But so far so good. I am actually very skeptic, since it seems to be to good to be true. Not only will 20 kg of propane suffice, It should be more than enough. So this is what I came up with so far. Obviously I am no Tesla but here goes. The specific heat of carbon steel is around 480J/kgK this means it takes 480 J of energy to heat 1kg of steel by 1 degree (K or C are interchangeable). So, my lump of steel weighs roughly 50kg and I want to heat it up to around 800C. This would then take 50 * 800 = 40000 times more energy than heating 1kg by 1 degree. Disregarding the fact that the starting temp. will be somewhat more then 0C of course. And this would then make 40000 * 500J (I rounded the specific heat up) = 20 000 000 J or 20 MJ of energy. Now, a kg of propane contains a calorific value of between 45 and 50 MJ. This would then mean that roughly 0.5kg of propane should do the trick. Whoah! This cant be right...Now surely there are a lot more variables to consider. This result might be close for ideal conditions with no losses and all the energy of the gas combustion transferred effectively. So for the actual situation I will have to consider at least the capacity of the gas torch and the tanks valves or how much energy can it deliver and in what time frame, also the losses, mostly by convection. The later will be mitigated to a degree by enclosing the whole anvil, from all sides bar the opening for the torch tip, with firebricks and possibly perlite to close all the gaps. It will essentially be like a small gas forge where the ceilling is the anvils face. And also I am under the impression that the entire mass of the anvil needs not be heated to the critical temp. in order to harden the face. If I am not mistaken, then this should work in my favor also. As for the torch, yeah, have not got a clue. I made my torch (I am not sure of the correct term, is it a torch, a burner a rosebud or are they interchangeable) from bits and pieces years ago and it has served me well for my needs so far. Also it makes a nice whooshing sound, I just mention it, because it is – well, nice. Its a venturi type system. But I do not know the energy output of my own torch, it is rather embarrassing. So, as it seems I shall have to dabble in the physics matters some more. Now, If any of you out there are physicists, please, do spare me the dabbling, as I am sure this would be a walk in the park for you while on the other hand I am navigating the amazon rain forest here. I have taken a few photos of my torch and its flame at the regular burning rate and full throttle. At full throttle the cone of blue flame, which is the hottest, to my understanding, at around 1500 C, is roughly 200mm long and 30mm in diameter at the widest section. I will try and modify the torch so that the blue cone would reach around 300mm this would then span the entire length of my anvil face. Or perhaps build another one and utilize the pair, have not decided jet. Comments and thoughts on the torch issue are most welcome. Glenn – as to your last post. Even though it is very short, it is also very enigmatic. I havent been able to decipher it jet. So far it makes no sense to me. The method for carburizing mild steel that I have described works very well for small objects, such as screwdrivers and chisels or their tips to be exact (as I also stated). I do not understand how this translates to welding up a missing tip of the horn. Even if I could perform this method on an anvil sized object successfully, I would not in this case, as I do not want the horn to be high carbon nor I want it to be hardened, especially not to a high degree. Nor is it necessary in my case since the steel in question already contains a high enough C content for its purpose. So, I do not understand your reasoning in this matter. As to the quenching of the anvil… well, as it turns out, the plot thickens… but that is not a problem, it is a challenge to be overcome and an opportunity for gaining new knowledge and experiences, which for me is the best kind of fun there is since it equates to life itself, in my reality at least. Have fun guys. Cheers! Mode Note: The post has been edited in order to meet the site guidelines.

Hi guys! Thanks for all the comments, especially to those of common sense and tolerance, very happy to see there are at least a few of those around. Anyone can read my posts and judge for themselves. I never stated that your reasoning is wrong, quite the opposite. I stated many times that the anvil is useful as it was and so on. I realize that. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my way is the right way, if you just want to use the anvil then what I am doing here is definitely a foolish thing to do, but I'm just repeating myself, everything is already written in my previous posts and even in the title of the thread itself. And also would I be asking and researching about topics I do not understand if my lack of knowledge presented no problem in my mind. Let us proceed with the restoration of my anvil... Still I would need advice regarding the stick welding electrode choice for low alloy cast steel with medium C content which is what I think my anvil is made of. Obviously I do not have the knowledge nor the equipment necessary to determine the exact metallurgical composition of metals. So its just a guess. But if nothing else I am most certain that it is steel. So if you have any experience in the matter at hand and are not emotionally attached to someone elses lump of steel I would much appreciate it if you could share your thoughts. Thanks. As for the hardening process I intend to perform on this anvil, the matter is as follows. I believe I have the quenching part sorted. I live near a stream, the stream has a stone dam over which the water flows and falls around 60 cm or 2 feet. The current is strong and the water is very cold even in the summer. The anvil will be placed under the rushing water on some stones I prepared so it will not be submerged at all only overrun with water. I am confident this is good enough for quenching an anvil of my size and even bigger probably. Heating the anvil is where I am uncertain if I will be able to achieve a high enough temp. with my current means. So this is the plan. Enclose the anvil in firebricks (not sure of this term)with the face turning down in such a way there will be a gap between the face and the bottom firebricks for the rose bud which will be burning propane gas. I intend to utilize two 10 kg bottles for this. Will it be enough in your opinion to get the anvil hot enough, that I intend to test with a magnet. Will this be sufficient? Let me also say that unfortunately I can not build a fire in that location, so that's out. Also the anvil has two 20mm square blind holes on opposite sides, so carrying the hot anvil should be no issue for two persons and of course I intend to heat the anvil right by the "waterfall". As I stated earlier there is also a plan B and C but I will not go there since those are unconventional methods that are experimental in nature, concocted by my very own feeble mind and therefore should be great fun. And that's what its all about. Gotta love the toys you play with. Have fun guys. Cheers! Mod Note: This post has been edited to meet the site guidelines.

Its to much to go into right now about how I plan to harden the face of the anvil. But plan A is the very conventional way. Heating it up and then quenching it. Tempering I don't belevi to be required in my case, because observations I made of my anvil lead me to belive it is not a high carbon alloy and will therefore not harden much over 50 hrc which is fine by me. While I can not tell you how to convert cast steel into tool steel. I can tell you how to convert mild steel into high carbon steel. I do it all the time. You are going to need a tig welder and some charcoal in stick form. I make mine from willow twigs. Then you just add the willow sticks in charcoal form to the weld puddle instead of filler metal. The molten steel will readily absorb C and that part is now high carbon (not the whole part). I make chisels and scredriwers that way. I also temper them since after quenching a file wont touch them. Cheers! PS: of course for best results everything has to be clean and prepared before as is good practice in welding. And I use argon traps for best results since here you really are cooking the metal and you want the gas shielding to be bulletproof.

hi Marc! Those holes are blind. Its an oval shape between the holes that is hardened. Before the grinding it was just a as somewhat bigger oval but there are traces of it extending beyond the holes, that is why I suspect the anvil had been reground at least one time before. And also the ones I have seen that were in mint condition had an 90% rebound all ove the face. Like I said already in my first post I knew it was a functional anvil as it was and it still is, but that is not what I am after. I know I am weird been told so ever since I was a small child, never followed the crowd, its not even a choice. Cheers!

Hi Glenn! Thanks for the kind words and I will. As to the profanity issue. What you have written, that is exactly the logic I do not understand. Protecting the children and the ladies, from what. From experience I know children will find those words out and will use them and will not be destroyed or even harmed by them, unless some "moral" adult overhears them saying these forbidden words. And that is madness and absurdity to me, the facts that words are forbidden. In my mind no words should be forbidden, ever. Its our greatest invention. And the freedom of speech is a big freedom I enjoy a lot. The same goes with protecting children from learning about sexuality as being perfectly fine and instead painting it as a shameful act (not all, but a lot of people are like this) while on the other hand violence displayed in all sorts of forms is perfectly fine. Insane in my opinion. And don't get me started on the ladies and their use of profanity... But like I said it I will respect the rule since I have to coexist and that is hard if there is no mutual respect. Cheers!

Yes I agree But I had a look at Quite a few of these type of anvils and the design is such that the horn is straight on the top an curved from the bottom. That is whay I said "rougly" this shape. This horns are never perfect cylinders as in a german style anvils I have seen. Cheers! I said it is unoriginal but that is what I want... Oh what you have against chisels you haven't mentioned them at all... Here is the corner of the foot that is mangled up. This is where I will test my chosen electrodes. and here are some more pictures of the comatose anvil as is right now. This is how it looked when I bought it. Cheers!

I believe those are called Pritchel holes Not sure about the spelling, English isn't my first language. I don't know why there are three, I was meaning to ask the question my self. their diameters are 10mm 14mm and 17mm roughly, those aren't perfect holes. I have an idea about hardening the face of the anvil which I intend to share here to get some feed back from you guys. if nothing else I expect it to be fun. As far as the hardened material goes you can clearly see it as darker portions on the face. If I drop the ball bearing on those parts it rebounds roughly 95% and around 60% on the softer surface which si basically everything south of the hardy hole, in short only the middle part between hardy any pritchel holes is still hard. and also the welded areas are now hard. I didn't wory about welding those small parts with a soft metal tig wire because I know from experience that carbon will migrate during welding and the welds will be hardened to a degree. But the hardness is not great I estimate it being around 50 hrc, with some effort you can file it, that's how I finished the hardy after welding.Cheers!

Hello. So here Is a picture of what is missing from the horn of my anvil and this is roughly what I would like to weld on and then reshape in to an almost needle sharp end, I wouldn't want to prick myself, so I will round the point a bit. Of course I will be welding all the little dings and cuts in the horn as well. And then I intend to grind the horn smooth as I possibly can. I'm doing this regardless of any ones opinion, but that is not to say I do not value others opinions, I do, any kind, I learn from it. But I would very glad if someone could share their experience of welding cast steel (possibly anvil) with stick. Thanks. I will be posting more pictures of the anvil as it is now and as it was before also. Cheers!

Hello. First, let me say, thank you for all the comments. They are very familiar to me and they were well expected. And even if they weren't all that helpful, they sure were amusing (this is not a sarcastic comment, just to make sure). Secondly I would like to apologize for actually not reading the forum rules and thereby not respecting them. I will respect them in the future. But would like to state that I do not agree with the rule regarding the use of profanity. I just don't understand it, to me its not logical. But like I said I will respect the rule. As for the anvil, its an even sadder story than you think. I actually did the research, quite an extensive one and jet I bravely grinded on. Why, this is sheer madness... I hear you say. And it cracks me up. Oh if I had a cent every time I heard that in my life. But you see my motiv here isn't purely utilitarian one. For my forging ambitions I wouldn't even need an anvil. I could do it on a pice of rail that I have. My blacksmithing ambitions are very modest and very unoriginal. I want forge a few knives and chisels out of old files I have laying around. The thing is I want a properly shaped and functional anvil not only for practical use, and with me it wont experience a lot of use let alone a heavy one, but also because of aesthetic reasons. I just like the look of it. Jet this anvil is ruined to me unless I will be able to reharden the working surface, because I also want full functionality not just looks, which in this case are tied in to the functionality of the tool, in my opinion. In my research regarding anvils I went to have a look at a few anvils in mint condition, knowing full well I can not afford them. I did this so I could examine them, to have a sense of what the standard or the norm is. And all of them had the form my anvil now has plus functionality by having the working face hardened. And I think such a form wasn't chosen for no good reason by the original designers of the tool and in my mind any deviation from the original form is a deviation from optimum in performance. But of course the anvil is a tool that is near impossible to destroy beyond usefulness, short of being reduced to small bits, it could be split in halve and still be useful, but that's beside the point. In short. I want it to look a certain way not because of strict utilitarian logic, but just because... And I went into this butchering operation with the full realization of the fact that my pacient might not survive. And the most difficult part is jet to come. The hardening, if I fail here I will call this project a complete loss. But I am hoping for the best also I have also a plan b nad plan c in case the plan a fails. But even if they all fail and I end up with an oversized door stop, its still been a fun road to travel, at least for me, as this is one of my hobbies, shall we say. Don't get me wrong I'm not thrilled about failing this project but I can accept it and wont loose any sleep over it. This is one of my side projects actually, and I didn't pay a lot of money for the anvil 150 eur to be exact, I knew I was doing this even before I bought the thing. So, that's that for now. And I saved the worst for last, I added a picture of the anvil in question on the operating table with the butchers weapons of choice weighing it down during the operation itself, its horrible, if you are sensitive person I advise you to avert your gaze. Cheers!

Hello. I am new to this community as well as to blacksmithing. This is my first post as I would need some advice from you guys. So after a long search I purchased a used 50kg (110 lbs) Austrian style anvil. The price was relatively cheap and the anvil wasn't in a horrible shape. I believe it is a cast steel anvil, it has a beautiful ring to it and the rebound is also excellent ( over 90%; tested with a ball bearing). The face is hardened but its not extremely hard. A file cuts it. The anvil had a lot of dings and cuts also the edges were slightly mushroomed, the very tip of the horn is also missing ( 20mm or so; less than an inch). With that said I am sure the anvil was perfectly usable as it was, but... I wanted, what any real man wants, to be able to forge an axe on the anvil and then shave my face with it while monitoring the procedure in the anvils mirror like surface. Kidding obviously, but I do want my anvil to have a nice flat and smooth face with crisp edges. I achieved that already by grinding off around 2-3mm of the original surface which left me with a few imperfections in the form of low spots around the hardy hole and on the edges. To take those out I would have to grind the surface down another 2mm. So I decided to just weld those areas. I welded it with tig adding vac60 1mm filler metal (ordinary mag wire that I get for free). The welding went smooth with no issues whatsoever. I didn't preheat since it was really only minor welding. And I did the welding hot and fast with lay wire technique so as to minimize the heat input. Then I ground the welds flush with the surface. The next thing I want to do now is to rebuild (and reshape) the tip of the horn and this is where I would need your advice, since filler material choice is more critical here than in the minor welding I did on the face. Its less then an inch (20mm) in length but considering the volume its a bit to much for tig welding. So I would like to use stick but cannot decide on the appropriate electrode. The selection of electrodes is mind boggling. I am leaning towards the type of electrode that is used for railroads, hammers, crushers, etc. designed to withstand severe impact and pressure, it also work hardens. It is a manganese chromium alloy electrode ( E Mn14Cr4) that is supposed to work on manganese and carbon steels. Would this be a good choice in your opinion? What do you recommend? What ever I will end up using I will test it first on the corner of one of the anvils legs which is a bit mangled and needs some purely cosmetic work. The issue here is also that I do not know the type of steel the anvil is made of. I am certain that it is cast steel though and not cast iron. Like I said, with tig and on a ground clean surface it welds with no problems. No porosity, no cracking. But I was welding only very small portions, volume vise much less than a cubic cm. The sparks the Anvil throws when grinding with a flap disc are very similar (dare I say identical) to the sparks from a piece of railroad track I have, and that is suppose to be manganese steel. For welding up the horn I intend to do the preheat and all. But like I said I am unsure of the electrode that would be best suited for the job. Your thoughts, opinions, suggestions... are very appreciated. Since I have put a lot of work already into this anvil and I am very pleased with the results so far I would really hate to xxxx it up now. Although I realize many would consider the work I have done to the anvil redundant and even damaging (it was perfectly useable as it was), since I ground of most of the hardened surface, yikes. But I enjoy restoring things to the very best of my abilities and gaining new knowledge and skills as I go along. So for now this restoration is my main goal with actual blacksmithing somewhere in the distant future, since I have a lot to do prior to hammering red hot steel, like building a gas furnace and stuff. With that said, for the final step I also intend to heat treat and reharden the anvil surface and I will be asking for your advice on that topic as well, but that's for another day. Thank you for now and cheers!