You guys are great. Getting quiet the laugh reading this. Son is not the most coordinated kid in the world, don't plan on letting him mess with power tools at the moment. Will stick with copper until I feel the coordination with the hammer is there. Like the idea of clay. I will look into it. Personally I feel the more responsibility you except from a kid the more he has. Too many parents want to wipe their kids ... Till they are 30, especially around here. One of the reasons for scouting and Working with your hands. DSW I'm just around the corner from Simi, Practically in my back yard. I looked into CBA, also a couple of historical groups have smiths in them, I just wasn't sure how approachable they would be to us. Also very interested in pie plate Dutch oven design we could have some fun with that. thanks again guys.