Alan DuBoff

Welcome to IFI and thanks for serving for our country!

Are you going to start making knifes?

Lucky you, having Sandpile as an uncle couldn't hurt to get started.

Go Stu go.!

I think the reason it's not geting hot enough is that there probably is not enough air. Remember that air causes heat with fire, and I read recentely that acetelyne (which propane is NOT) will heat up to about 4000 derees on it's own, but with oxygen it can go to 6000. I hope I'm not pulling these figures out of my you know where, but I remember reading this. The oxygen will allow it to get that much hotter.

The other reason could be the burner tip that is on the propane tank. Remember that you will burn those tips easily when using stock tips from a propane tank like that. But it should get hot enough. You might be using the MIG tips you mentioned.

Score on the firebrick, I need to get some.

I'm waiting on my burner to get here before I futz around with propane, and with some firebrick I can use the portable solid fuel forge I have. It's not clear which will win out in the end, but I am a solid fuel type person, even in my BBQs, I don't use propane of any type.

It's almost getting hot enough for you, it's starting to get red.

Maybe someone more knowledgable on propane has some suggestions.

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Jr., (or other)

Was this what actually took his life, by inhaling the fumes, got sick, and that was it?

If so, that's really scary...that's a real danger, and smith's need to know what steel they're using, most certainly.

May the force behind the hammer be with Jr Hofi!

I'm no expert on this as I'm fairly new to all of this smithy stuff, but from what I have been researching and seeing, most gas forges either use venturi style to blow the air in, or use a seperate blower.

The ceramic deal you pictured would require some type of air to heat things enough, unless you had a venturi type burner blowin' in from the side/bottom. In this case you would need to enclose the forge area so that it would get hot enough, I believe.

I wouldn't let the difficulty in getting kaowool stop you from ordering that through mail, or finding a place to get it in Japan, I would think they would have it for sale somewhere. It seems about the safest.

I was just wondering if the charcoal brazier can be used for a forge...........? (Called a Shichirinn in Japanese)

You can almost use it for a solid fuel forge using charcoal, but still have the air problem to solve.

One guy used a blower with charcoal, and after 7 or 8 uses the brazier was worn out.....? I wonder if this is because of the charcoal, and with the cleaner gas, it would last longer?

One reason is that when you start adding air to the fire, it gets a lot hotter, hence why it is able to heat metal to welding temps. You could build some type of enclosed area with firebrick as well, which is how I'm most likely going to end up using my portable solid fuel forge.

PS, maybe a mod or admin could split this thread and move it to the right area, we seem to have gotten off on a tangent here.....

Glenn might be able to do that. Or just start another thread in "Blacksmithing" about a gas forge.

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Stu,

The anvil looks like some type of ASO (Anvil Shaped Object) and should work fine. You could do edge tools on there no problem.

For the forge, think about this...if you decide to go gas, you won't want anything like that electric forge you pictured as you'll most likely want a venturi setup, which doesn't require air, it blows it in from the burner. Because of that, they're most often enclosed and why you see them made out of sections or pipe, or cans, freon tanks, etc...

This is a much simpler setup as it elliminates the blower, and only requires propane be refilled.

Once you start thinking about a solid fuel forge, you need to think about a blower also, even if it's a hair dryer.

Great story about the venison, do you bag it in Tokyo? You didn't take that back from Canada with you, did you? I don't think they would let you do that these days, not sure...now I'm curious how you'd bag a deer in Japan, few folks have guns, maybe you used a bow. My wife's cousin bag'd a wild boar for a Sho-Gatsu party about 8 years ago, but they live in Kagoshima, out in farmland (he used a rifle). I used to mostly chase 2-legged deer when I lived in Tokyo, that was until I married my wife!

Anyway, you can sometimes setup with the fire department and let them know what you're doing, but I'm not sure how that works in Japan. If you were back home in Canada, no problem of course...

I would think this would make propane your choice. If that is the case, you need to decide what type of tank you will use, wether the small 1 lb. tanks, or a 20gal tank, you can use either. The bigger factor may be what is available locally for you, but it seems that you mentioned Joyful Honda has gas to refill tanks with. Remember that you can burn those tips on the burners if not careful, so make sure you come up with a decent setup that will continue to work for you.

You should be able to order kaowool blanket/board/brick from some of the places online, such as Zoeller's Forge, if he'll ship international. If you can find kaowool locally, all that much better.

Before you jump into it, think it out first, so that you have a slack tub, some tongs, proper eye protection, and safety attire. You can use pliers for tong replacements if the stock is small, but just keep those things in mind, red/yellow/white hot metal is HOT! We have 2 rules in the smithy I am learning at. 1) fire/metal is good, 2) fire/hot-metal/hand is not good. You need to follow those simple rules!

OTOH, there's a lot of old blacksmiths in Japan, who have their own traditional methods of smithin', but probably not suitable with you in Tokyo. I've seen small forges built into the ground which they use. But this tells me there must be some place that sells tongs, hammers, stuff like that, even if you need to mail order them. They make a lot of chisels, and saws, and other edge tools, and those Japanese guys sure know how to market their forged products, stock up today before the master dies, this could be the last chance, possibly the last batch, get on the list now! :p

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From this, I did not imagine a roof location.

I wouldn't have either, but to give you an idea of what it looks like up there, here's a pic from Stu's site after he did some loggin' in Tokyo!



Hey Stu, I missed that nice jointer, nice find!

Welcome Stu! Irashaaaaaiiiiiii!

Glenn, I think Stu has a roof to work off of also, and will most likely end up with gas. But I bet he could run solid fuel on the roof if he wanted. In Japan the top of the apartment complexes has a kinda patio area typically, and the owners of the building have it for their family typically. I think Stu's In-Laws may own the building.

I used to live a couple miles from Stu in Shinjuku, but I was there about 20+ years ago ('82-'87). I lived in a small 9 tatami apartment, could barley fit my fat backside in there for the 5 years I lived in Japan.

That dungeon is something, heh?

EDIT: there's a couple good threads on forges, and Fred Frontine has a great web site with a great rendition of a mini-forge.:cool:

(linky pic)




Lots of great smiths that will certainly be able to help you figure out what is best for your needs.

Oh, and BTW, you'll find Jr. hangs around here! ;)

Jens, understood, but do you need to remove stock to make a knife?

Seems one can be forged without stock removal, so Ron's point is well taken, I think.

Congrats, kids are the greatest thing in the world to me, and what life is about, more so than learning to smith!

Looks like a keeper!

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This was quite a help for me to understand quite a bit more about metal. I have only picked out specific areas as the document is so large, there's a wealth of info in this. After seeing the chart on page 50, and talking to my instructor, a light kinda flipped on and I realized the 2nd 2 numbers are the carbon content in steel.

The explaination of how the first 2 digits change depending on the alloy was also helpful.

Yeah, I'm a bit green on metal, and even more reason I appreciate passing this on to the IFI folks.

There's a lot of info in that doc. :D

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Took some pics of the forge as I cleaned and got it going today at the smithy.

(linky pic)



Had another great day at the school of hard knocks...(pun intentional )

Jr. I like that heat protector for the stock, that's gonna be on my list of things, but I haven't noticed too much problem, and Scott Thomas doesn't allow us to wear gloves, and I guess I kind of agree, but I take my Ghetto Glove with me anyway, never know when I might need it. I like the little heat protector, that's a cool idea! (I'm full of puns tonight, heh?).

Not sure about coke v coal ,, so ifin youse could tell me how youse bloke ( & shelias ) go about " daily forge chores " twould be intersting ta see the diff ..

Well, I can tell you what I've been taught to do...I've only been smithing for a month or two, so take it with a grain of salt.

Luckily I only have to clean the forge I use. So it's not like I'm cleaning all the forges at the smithy...

We have 2 buckets, one for coal/coke, and the other for ash/clinker (basically a garbage bucket). Everything in the firepot gets sorted out for the good coke that was left from the previous coal fire, since we want that to start the new fire with. You can use coal, but it's harder to get going, is my understanding. Anyway, it's not something to spend a lot of time with, so anything that is usuable gets put up around the sides of the firepot inside the forge, and then I get a full bucket of coal which is all about walnut size or slightly smaller.

After all the ash/clinker are out of there, and the ashgate is all cleaned (I use a small broom and shovel), I put 2 pieces of wadded up newspaper, and go out in the back and chop up some kindling, there's a box and sometimes there is kindling there (like last week;-) But if not I just chop up enough to start the fire, about 2 fist fulls (1 large fist full). I put the paper in the firepot and toss the kindling over it, then get some of the coke that was left from the previous coal fire (the light fluffy stuff), and put a handful or two on top. Before I light the paper, I shovel all the coal around the forge (I use the entire bucket). I try to have it mound up towards the firepot.

Then I light the paper, and as it starts to burn I slowly crank the blower. I continue to put more of the coke that was left, on to the fire, and then continue to move coal into the firepot also...and by this time the coal is starting to burn the impurities out/off and turn into coke, and I try to keep it broken up and fluffy as it wants to get sticky/gummy if you're not attentive. Eventually the coal turns into light fluffy coke.

Then I just keep going until I need to leave. I have had enough coal for the few hours I'm there, last week I was there for 4 hours. Then I shovel all the coal/coke from the firepot to the outside so it stops burning and leaves the next guy something to start his fire with, and I make sure the bucket is full of coal also, if I can. I kinda look at it as I leave the forge the way I would like it to be when I get there. The first couple times the forge was left with almost nothing in it, but the smith must have told one of the other lackys to kick it up a notch, because last week there was a ample supply of coke in the forge and plenty of coal in the bucket!

This method seems to work for me, and has started the forge the few times I've used it.

You might want to get someone else's opinion of the proper way to start the forge, there's all types of zealots about using liquids, not using them, etc...some folks use lighter fluid I guess, but I haven't been taught that way.