Alan DuBoff

Ditto for me, and I am a tad ahead of you Joe, but you're not very far behind me. I was lucky to find an instructor close to me that is very reasonable, and start learning under him in a couple weeks. I have an anvil, but not as heavy a one as you plan, mine is a 134# Peter Wright. It's a little tired, but will get me going. My instructor has a few anvils as well, and his smithy is excellent, and a very old and traditional smithy, which is located at a historical farm. This seems to be a bit exreme to replace your broken Stanley chisel which you damaged over at the Homestead Heritage School of Woodworking! I'm gonna do a drawknife before a chisel, since a drawknife looks easier. I'm actually thinking to use a planer knife for it, since it's already got the edge on it. My new instructor has done a lot of that type of stuff, and you can see some of it on his website, Ardenwood Forge, I start there in a couple weeks. For this type of stuff you really don't need much space and a small 6'x6' space could work. You really just need a small forge and an anvil, with a small vise. Others here can tell you better than me, since I'm not far ahead of you, but I'm planning to setup my smithy outside. The more you want, the more space you need, so a trip hammer will require space. You might consider a post/leg vise before that, after you get an anvil. Good luck on your venture, please let us know how you progress. Ok, I'll shut my big mouth and let the folks that know what they're doing give you advice! :p

I need to check to see what the regulations are in my area, but in the worse case a propane forge will do. I was told today by the instructor I'll be studying under that a propane forge will work fine for most of the type of stuff I want to do, he mentioned that it's only for fancy scroll work and/or larger stock where a coal forge comes in handle. But he felt strap hinges and tools and hooks, all could be done easily with a propane forge. I 'spose some of my neighbors might not like it, I don't know. When I BBQ I do put out a lot of smoke, I wonder if they could tell I was forging opposed to 'quein...? Interesting...the first time that happens I'm firin' up my DeWalt thickness planer by their side of the house. Nah, in general I try to get along with my neighbors and not cause them problems. I think that mentioning it to them, that I am doing what I'm doing is probably the best step to prevent that. I like the trinket idea, make them something like a fireplace poker, and then if I do get p.o.'d at them for blowin' the whistle on me, tell them where to put that poker. Thomas Thomas

Yes, that is what I was trying to say. I know that most serious blacksmith's seem to reccomend either Andrew's book or Bealer's, and even Bealer seems to have a mixed following with many feeling there's bad info in the book. Seems many folks learned how to forge with Bealer's book though. I'm been told by a friend to get Robb Gunther's videos on beginning blacksmithing. I've been told if one joins ABANA they have it in the library. I need to check to see if CBA has it in their library. This sounds reasonable and I like to see many views of something. Some folks feel that I analyze things too much, and that's ok, it's for me to worry about. So far I have no books and no videos on blacksmithing, and did get an instructor today who I'll start with the middle of Oct. I'll be working with him once a week for 3 hours. He showed me exactly the things he would show me and they're in complete line with what I want to do...he had some great knives and swords, and even some spear heads he made. He also had a nice little drawknife, some great chisels with forge welded sockets on them, holdfasts, tons of hooks of all types and while I was talking with him he forged about 10 hooks using square rod, about 1/2". He put a scroll on them, twisted them, and filed the end with a farrier's rasp. First time I saw that done on hot steel, I was wondering how a rasp would work on metal. I have to get steel toed shoes, overalls, and safety glasses. I'm confident he can give me the foundation I need to learn how to forge correctly, and the smithy was way cool, a building that was over a hundred years old, it really was the classic smithy. He had 2 forges, the main one he uses and the smaller is for his students. Both had the same type of blower I found, Champion 400 gearboxes, one with a 12" fan, the other with an 8". I don't know how big the fan is on mine, I'll find out tomorrow. I'm pretty excited to find someone that can help me, and so close, 5 minutes away from where I work (although I work at home more than half the time). I told him I felt privlidged to find such a traditional smithy to learn in, a really nice guy, his name is Scott Thomas.

I was talking to a smith today and we were talking about this. He gave what I considered to be pretty good advice. Make some trinkets and give the neighbors, they'll love you after that. Not sure how well it will work with my neighbors, but I'm not sure there's too much they can do as long as I conform to the law. AFAIK, it's certainly not against the law to burn coal inside a forge in your yard anymore than it would to BBQ. I get a lot of smoke when I BBQ. One of my friends lives in a pretty upscale neighborhood and he works metal and forges all the time and says he's never had a complaint from his neighbors. I was surprised those type folks wouldn't complain, I bet those princesses fuss like all heck to their husbands... I'll know how they feel after I start forging at home which is gonna happen soon. I can't imagine them minding it after using my benchtop thickness planer for wood, it's so loud the worms crawl over to my next door neighbor's grass. There's no wildlife for blocks when I start that puppy. Edit: words replaced to keep this a family forum

Interesting. I know that Weygers is popular and has been for a long time, but most of the better smiths I talk to feel he's a bit essoteric. I've met few smiths that even know about McRaven and have figured that mostly people interested in that type of mentality would. McRaven is into similar as Weygers was, in the sense of building with resources on your land, forging, stonework, and timbers... I just got off the phone with Scott Thomas, he runs the smithy over at Ardenwood Historical Farm in Fremont. I believe this is just the ticket for what I need. He only charges $10/hr, and most folks learn under him for a few hours a week. He said that more than 3 hours and most folks start getting too tired. The good thing for me is that it's only across the bridge/bay from where I work, so on the days I do go to work I could scedule time to have him instruct me. He said the first thing he does is have his students make a square rod out of a round rod, and he agreed very much with what you folks have told me, focus on hammer control first and foremost. I think this will work out good, and give me an opportunity to use a real smithy so I can get mine setup. I'm meeting him at his smithy tomorrow afternoon around 2:00pm, and might take a slot he has on Tuesdays. He can only have one student at a time because he said he only has one forge, and it's too ackward for more than one to use it at a time. Scott is affiliated with CBA, who is in turn affiliated with ABANA. I think this will be a good way for me to start learning how to really bang some metal. I explained to him that I do want to remain a hobbyist, and the type of work I'm interested in, to accent my woodworking as well as making some tools, and other projects to learn how to forge...(i.e., he said the square rod ends up being a fireplace poker when it's done).

Oh my, I might have misled you somehow, but I didn't try to...I am coming to blacksmithing as a pure hobby. With that said, I have some wild plans as a hobbyist, and would like blacksmithing to be a means to the end. My original goal was that it would be nice to be able to forge some additions to my woodworking, which is also a hobby. Hinges, straps, hooks, stuff like that. I'll probably never be good enough to want to be a professional smith, nor do I really want to do that. And I like your suggestion on making the hooks by hammer alone, that is what I did on the first one. This would work, and I could even use a micro-forge if I wanted to for making small hooks to hang my tools (friend gave me a firebrick in case I wanted to do so, but I don't have a propane tank, so...here I am...trying to figure out how to create a modest forge, get the basic tools, and most certainly find decent instruction. Yes, I am definitely looking into classes, and planning to meet with a friend towards the end of October to get together and work some iron with him. Gobbler did make a good point to not worry about the jigs, indeed. My original attraction to this is in trying to buid myself a log home. I don't plan to do the log work, but I do plan to finish the home once the log work is up. A craftsman who has become a good friend over the past few years, Tim Bullock, will do the log work for me. As I started to research this project which has been ongoing for at least 5 years now, it was the concept of Charles McRaven that kind of got me interested in smithing. He's not popular amongst blacksmiths, he mostly used it for building log homes himself, a similar attraction I have. In the same light, I admire someone like Weygers, who doesn't seem as popular amongst smiths either, but I admire the seat of the pants method of using smithing to create a means to the end, and how he built tools and forged other pieces for the unique home he built. And it does cross my mind as I move forward, do I want to be an un-orthodox smith like Weygers, or do I want to lay down a solid foundation as Andrews advocates/presents. I have always been one for building off a solid foundation, so the Andrews approach seems more in line with that, but Weyger's work strikes a soft spot in my heart. I don't either of their books, and that would be a good place to start possibly, but I'll wait until I find the proper classes and/or instructor to help me before buying either. I have taken a similar approach to woodworking, and while I mostly enjoy working wood by hand, I had to be a realist and understand that it's almost impossible to dimension the amount of timbers/lumber I will need to complete such a massive project like building a home. So I will need some power tools. I suspect I will be similar with blacksmithing, in that it will take me longer to do what I want, than it does an experienced smith, but that I'll be able to do enough and be able to produce quality that me and my family will be proud of. A perfect example of what I would forge in such a project would be strap hinges for a door, straps to add extra support to a timber, small hinges to use on a cabinet, hooks to hang things from. A bigger project would be to incorporate such hooks into an arrangement to hang pots and pans with kitchen utensils from the ceiling of the kitchen, etc... Think of Arts & Crafts style work, such as Greene & Greene, where straps were incorporated with the woodwork, for instance. I won't get my forging as refined as that type of work, but I want the work to be mine. My kids already understand that I'm not like the average Dad of their fellow students and friends, their Dad has some wild dreams, and uses traditional ways of doing it himself rather than relying on modern industry to make all of it for him. Hopefully they'll appreciate that when I gone... Honestly, Jr. is the quintessential galoot for what I would try to achieve, since he works wood by hand in very much the way I prefer, but in Jr.'s case he's a smith by trade. A nice convenience...I don't believe I will ever be as experienced as Jr. though, or Bill Epps, or the other folks amongst this crowd, I will be a hobbyist who lives his dream, and leaves it for his family. Sorry for ramblin', that's a bad habit of mine I 'spose... EDIT: mcraigl, I'm in West San Jose, but will travel to most any area around the Bay area. The Ardenwood Historical Farm in Fremont looks way cool, I hope the blacksmith classes over there works out. They are one of the CBA listed affiliations.

Yes, that is what I need to make for myself. That would be perfect. I will check out the other links, I've looked through many of the blueprints already, as I have over on anvilfire with some of the info they have. I really like the drawknife blueprint, that looks like a good project and I would love to make myself a woodworking tool. The handles are very similar to the Perfect Handles on the old tools, I just love those handles. But the blueprint pein'd in brass pins to hold on the handles. I'd like to make me a small 4" blade drawknife, those small ones are hard to find out in the wild. I'd love to make some woodworking chisels also if possible. But I don't want to get too sidetracked yet, I need to focus on getting a forge setup and get the blower I'm getting, hooked up to it. The hooks will get me to get a little experience. Tell me something. On the pin bender, the larger ring allows for a larger bend on the smaller pin, right?

Jr. Ah, right and left quarter peins sound nicer than diagonal peins... I have left messages with 2 of the places in my area that have the CBA classes, and one looks very interesting over in Fremont at the Ardenwood Historical Farm, but I'm waiting for a call back still. They have a blacksmith shop and teach CBA classes there. Another in San Jose, but that historical farm looks like quite a place. I was also considering going to the Oktoberfest this weekend, but I have other family committments already, not to mention I'm keeping myself broke buying tools, such as the blower... The galoot that showed me how to make the hook, did it differentely than you, and your method looks much nicer and the pins do allow for easily duplicating the shape/size. That's certainly something I would like to fab or buy. The other question I was wondering is about the hardies. I only have 1 cutoff hardy which came with my anvil. I've seen a bending hardy on ebay, but I'm unclear what is needed to make them fit. Seems that each hardy hole could be different, and I know my hardy will only fit in the hole properly in one direction. Do folks grind those to make them fit normally? Oh, and lastly, what type of files do folks use to clean things up, do you use a regular mill bastard file? Thanks for all your help, I know I annoy you sometimes, as I do others. :rolleyes:

I'm trying to move forward to getting a small smithy setup still, and was able to make my first hook this past weekend with some local galoots at a gathering we had. A friend brough a micro-forge so we could do that. Unfortunately you only get one shot to bend the hook, as it wouldn't fit in the micro-forge after it was bent, and the tip of my scroll turned sideways as I bent it around the horn. I found a Champion 400 blower and hope to build some type of forge, so I can make some more hooks. The intention is to hang my old tools from such hooks in a shed I built which I will use part for working wood by hand. Anyway, I know that many folks prefer a straight pein, opposed to a cross pein, and noticed the pein on the hammer Jr. is using in the above blueprint apears to be diagonal. Is this a compromise between a straight and cross, so that you don't need to be a pretzel to work the metal out with the pein, comfortably in from of you? This can all vary depending on how one holds the work, but was just wondering in general what the diagonal pein was used for primarily. I did search the blueprints and did see another BP from Jr. on making hammers, which showed one of those similar diagonal pein hammers. Is there a name for that type of pein? Also, I only have a cutoff hardy, so bent my hook on the horn of my anvil. But the pin bender that Jr. is using in the Beam Hook BP looks really handy and can adjust for many various sizes. I don't see those type of gadgets in my neck of the woods, but I'll need to look harder I 'spose. Can those be purchased anywhere around Northern California does anyone know? I'm supposed to meet a fellow galoot that has some tongs and other tools, but not sure if has anything like that, I need to ask him. He's going to help me out with a few tools so I can get going, which I can barter for.

Welcome Steve, I'm probably newer to forging than you, have only taken a hand at it a couple times to date. This is a nice website though, and the folks are most welcoming.

A good explanation of hundredweight is below. Interesting that there's also a smaller American version of hundredweight just to f#@$ with our minds...so we get to deal with a short hundredweight (American) vs a long hundredweight (English). To quote a famous comedian, "This is another fine mess you've gotten us into, Stanley". hundredweight (Cwt or cwt) a traditional unit of weight equal to 1/20 ton. The hundredweight is the English version of a commercial unit used throughout Europe and known in other countries as the quintal or the zentner. In general, this unit is larger than 100 pounds avoirdupois, so to fit the European market the hundredweight was defined in England as 112 pounds avoirdupois (about 50.8023 kilograms) rather than 100 pounds. This definition apparently dates from about the middle of the 1300's. The British hundredweight was divided into 4 quarters [1] of 28 pounds, 8 stone of 14 pounds, or 16 cloves of 7 pounds each. In the United States, where the currency was decimalized and there wasn't so much need to align the unit with the quintal and zentner, the hundredweight came to equal exactly 100 pounds (about 45.3592 kilograms). The U.S. hundredweight seems to have been invented by merchants around 1840. To distinguish the two hundredweight units, the British version is often called the long hundredweight and the American is called the short hundredweight or cental. The C in the symbol is of course the Roman numeral 100.

Thanks for much (and thanks to Jr. for his response also). This answer my biggest question, "what is the base number for the middle number?", since mine was 0, I didn't know how to calculate that. Oddly, I had seen CWT referred to by someone in the archives, but searching on cwt revealed nothing. Does anyone know what is was a hundredweight of? It must have been 100 of s specific weight, eh? It can't be kilos as they're too close.

Yeah, it's rare to find one in my area, let alone one at a reasonable price. It's cooking in electrolyte right now... Thanks for that Glenn, I'll check out the blueprint. Silicon sounds like an interesting option also. I just got the cooker going and most of the anvil fit in, but the nose is sticking out. I'm thinking of letting it stew for about 2-3 days, that outta get most of the rust and paint off of it. Glenn, I have a question for you, in regards to your tag. It was pointed out to me that my anvil was actually 134# rather than the #131 they told me, since it is 1-0-22 (seller said it was the patent date). But that it is 112+0+22 which is 134. I tried to search the archives and on the site, but couldn't find what measuring system this was based on, and what the numbers stand for? What is the 112? I don't know of any base 112 systems, but it doesn't surprise me that the English might have one. Must be the weight of the King's hammer, or something...

There's no better way than learning with hands on, IMO, and I hope to get some of that myself. I have a few friends that forge around the area, and hoping I can get some time in with them, to get started on the right foot.

Thomas, so true on the tongs...I don't get some of these folks... This is like taking advantage of people, IMO. However, if someone does pay for it, then it certainly must be market value.;-) So, I said to this woman at one of the stores, "Wow, folks who live around here must really be willing to pay a lot of $$$s for tools out here, I'd never pay that...". Her response was that most of their customers are tourists passing through, that none of the locals shop there...even more pathetic...I guess I should be happy that the folks selling the anvil didn't expect to get a fortune and put a $500 reserve on it. And the lady in the antique store can use one of her levels to get a level head on old tool prices...

I'll reserve comments until it's cleaned up and I see what it looks like. I know they're typically good anvils, my concern was it's condition or if the top would be flat. It will certainly have flat areas other than the chip'd areas. Funny, I picture some guy wacking it with a large sledge, not forging, but smashing a piece of pipe or something, when it chip'd on both sides. Hard to tell, but it's certainly old enough to be able to tell some stories if it could talk. I don't have much equipment yet, have a few ball peins, but don't have a forge and need to figure out what to do. I haven't figured out if my neighbors will be p.o.'d at me yet. hehehe Speaking of which, I notice some folks wrap chain around the base to keep the anvil from ringing too loud. I need to see how loud it is. I don't think I overpaid, but they didn't give it away either. It was reasonable for me to buy though, so it's responsible for getting me into this mess!;-)

Thanks Jr., I think it's still unknown how much of a metal mongrel you folks will turn me into...and even though I do have a primary interest in wood, I hope to compliment it with some metal. I know that some folks cringe when someone mentions Weygers, but I have to admit to finding his life, creations, and ability to share with others to be something quite special. I don't have any books on blacksmithing, but was planning to get the Andrews book, as well as Weygers. Weygers created a very unusual house, one that was built of materials off his land, as well as recycled products. I admire his passion to incorporate metal, wood, and other materials into usable products. His house was yet a perfect example of that. I know that his wife lives in the house still, I don't know if folks can visit it or not, but it would be something to see, IMO. Is the Andrews book the one you would reccomend? I mean, besides the "Strasil Teachings", of course! I see there's some great smiths on this site, so you're in good company, aside from me!

Ten Hammers (I've only got about 8 hammers;-) Wasn't trying to get in a political debate at all, sorry for putting that in there. It just gets me so p.o.'d that folks think they can charge outrageous prices for tools that will be encased in a shrine and not used. A tool was made for one thing, to use. With that said, I have some tools which I don't use and feel have collectable value, but those tools are in the minority of my tools. I don't need any einstein antique collectors explaining to me why a $5 brace is worth $40. I bought a lot of 8 ball peins a while back on ebay for $12, and one or two had cracked handles...there was a single ball pein I saw in the antique store for $25. Ok, I'm off my soapbox...(p.o.'d at people spraying clear on an anvil because they think it will preserve it. That outta take some value away from it, IMO.

So did Bush, what's the point? Funny, when I was picking up my anvil recentely, I stopped by a couple antique stores in the small town I was at, which was really off the beaten path. Ridiculous prices for old tools and the owners both felt they were very collectable items, like braces for $30-$40, a couple small english levels for $50-$60... In this case we should all pay $74,800 more than the tool is worth as it belonged to Lincoln's Dad. Maybe the anvil is worthless, or why didn't Abraham take to it? That might be a question for Bush, he seems to know quite a bit...

Oooh, a perfect thread for my newly acquired used and abused anvil. Peter Wright, 134# I was told it was used by the woman's grandfather in a junk store for as long as she could remember him beating on it, until he passed. She seemed pretty happy to get $155 for it though...even though it doesn't look like the end-all anvil, I figured I couldn't find much better for the price, and many anvils going for $3-$4/lb in my area on the west coast.

Just to add my $0.02, I've been looking for an anvil for a while and have looked over the typical places online. I found an old Peter Wright on ebay that was local to me, for $155. I don't know if it's a good deal or not, it's pretty tired looking, but should handle the light work I want to do with it. Here's some pics of it, which I posted in the intro fora, where I introduced myself.;-) (clicky image) I have seen decent anvils on craigslist, on ebay, and have heard of folks buying them at fleas reasonable. I was tracking anvils within 100 miles for quite a while, this one was 40 miles from me...go figure. As I said, I'm not sure if this was a good deal or not, it looks a bit tired...but I'm not gonna be forging anything too awfully big. It's got a bit of sway around the chips, but no matter if it's ok or not, that's most likely how I'm gonna use it. hehehe...I am gonna clean it.

Thanks all, for the welcomes. I was concerned after reading some FAQs and such for new blacksmiths that maybe this anvil was tired and/or worn out. I'll clean it up before I do anything, then see what folks think. I've seen some great blueprints on this site, and the one about J hooks seemed useful for what I might try first. I need to get a forge setup, but in the meantime trying to get some time with a friend that forges to see if he can't help me some to get going.

Just a note to introduce myself. Hobbyist with in interest in various light forging, possibly creating straps and/or hinges for doors I would like to build, simple hooks for hanging old hand tools on the walls to organize my space, or even tools themself such as a hammer. I recentely bought an anvil, and picked it up yesterday, and planning to give it a bath in electrolyte soon. I'm mostly interested in woodworking, and want to use metal with it. Would love to forge my own hinges for small boxes, even. Why? I don't know. I'll spend way more time doing it as I will the woodworking itself. I don't do this for time or money, I just know that I do this because I like to do things myself and enjoy creating. As you can see if you click-da-pic, it's a bit tired and has seen better days, but I'm hoping there's a bit more life in it, and if for nothing else but resetting the blades on hand saws. After it gets a bath, I'll have a better idea. But it seems there could be some flat area between the chips, if looking at pic 4 of that series, but from the sides there is definite sway. Could use some advise on what to do, and I will post pics after I get it cleaned up after it's bath. The little supository hardie seems like a plus I guess.