DC712001

Funny (as to Hot-Roll availability and price) everywhere I go, Hot-Rolled is available even down to 1/4-inch diameter rod, 1/4 x 1/4 x 1/8 angle, and thin hot-rolled sheet, and nearly always much cheaper on price. Even my local hardware store stocks Hot-Rolled and Cold-Rolled steel, coated (galvanized), expended-metal, brass, copper, etc,... albeit that it is all a lot more expensive than going to a dedicated metals supply/service center and going through their scrap pile or even buying there "New" stock. Hot-Rolled (typically) has a gray, "Mill-Finish," whereas Cold-Rolled steel (during processing) is "Pickled" in mixed-acids to remove the mill-scale prior to the cold-rolling process to finished-size.

Can't be helped. Similar to the vacuum-cleaner, some of the air from the impeller or fan in the Blow-Dryer, gets directed to the electric-motor in the blow-dryer, to keep it cool. The motor isn't completely sealed-off from the impeller. Moving Air through a blow-dryer is fine, but moving Air+Fuel through a blow-dryer means a blow-dryer on fire.

More good info. Actually though, my point about not feeding the mixture through an "Electric" Blow (hair) dryer, is that the motor produces electric sparks that would likely ignite the mixture inside the unit. Sort of like what happened to the gasoline thief that tried using a Shop-Vac to suck the fuel out of a victim's gas tank. The thief didn't realize that some of the air from the vacuum's blower, is blown over the electric motor to cool it. Gasoline vapors quickly "surprised" the thief, permanently:o.

I believe Frosty would say Yes to that, (feeding the air/fuel mixture through the blower would serve to better mix the mixture.) Of course, don't try that with an electric blow-dryer:o. Perhaps a vortex-generator? Appreciate the thoughts and concepts. Lots to consider. Hmmm... I wonder if a Spray-Nozzle off a pump-type Garden-Sprayer would be closer to the correct scale?

I was out tinkering and scrounging to build a burner. Got the MIG welding tip and the 1/8-inch brass pipe, but while checking the drawers of my plastic, mini-storage bin, I saw some brass sprinkler-head sprayers; The kind that screw into a sprinkler head and can be changed-out for say 1/2-circle or spraying a strip. Got me wondering.... Might a burner be enhanced by spraying the gas/propane more like a shower-head than from a simple orifice hole, like we do from a MIG weld tip??? Anyone ever try it or does it sound like an idea that might work to better mix the fuel-air prior to combustion?

Trying to do this on-the-cheap (out of necessity) and though I have the EMF/Temperature-conversion chart, and have read literature on roughly how it works, how do you go about correcting/calibrating for the Ice-Point junction? Do I attach the thermocouple to an ice-cube, take a Milli volt-reading, then add, (or is it subtract) that voltage from what I would later read from the T/C when attached to the hot load/object in the furnace? Am I completely off base? If so, how do you use the T/C or make it work?

Thanks for all the great replies. I checked out the Ellis website (good stuff) and I'll likely drive to San Jacinto, near Hemet, CA, to check out Mojave Southern Machine (will likely buy some ITC-100 and a few odds & ends.) Agree Fred, I'll likely final-coat with the ITC-100 and since Mojave SMW sells smaller quantities (1/2-pint, etc,) some ITC-213 as well. The $18/Gal for the Kaowool-Rigidizer looks like a great price, as I've seen it sold for $62/Gal elsewhere. Thanks Again.

Thanks Frosty.

I was at a local Furnace supplies company (they mostly build/reline furnaces and kilns, but also sell materials) and I asked about ITC-100 coatings. They didn't seem to know about them, but instead said they would sell me a gallon of Thermal Ceramics Kaowool Rigidizer for $18/gallon. Is that "good enough" or should I also seek out some ITC-100 coating?

Thanks for the replies and evfreek, Thank You for the link too.

Thanks for the replies. Good to know.

Building my first small Propane Forge Furnace. Has me wondering.... Can a furnace Melt/Burn Up? Aside from proper insulation, how do you keep that from happening? Once fired up, does it need to be watched carefully and adjusted, or does it basically take care of itself?

Was wondering, will a standard, digital multimeter work with thermocouple-wire, as a readout for EMF (current generated,) or do I need to buy a dedicated potentiometer?

Appreciate the replies/thoughts. Since it is my first forge furnace, I agree that I'll likely modify it and/or build more than one furnace over time. Frosty, that sounds like similar elements as used in open-hearth steel-making furnaces. I have some experience relining heat-treating furnaces, as I was a Supervisor for a Heat-Treat department many years ago. Just trying to think through some possibilities. I read over my ASM International "Metals Handbook," with particular attention to furnace type/design and specifics about Thermocouples. When I used to heat-treat professionally, we made-up thermocouples from ceramic-insulators (strung like beads on a string,) with Ni-Chrome and Ni-Aluminum wire, by twisting the wire-ends together and gas-welding to draw a bead on the tip. Then we would attach the T/C to the load at center and edge. Found a Furnace Supply company (Industrial Furnace and Insulation, Inc., a company that builds/relines furnaces/kilns, etc.) that said he'll sell me hard-fire-brick ($3 /ea.), rigidizer ($18/gal.) to coat the Kaowool and Thermocouple Wire setup ($35.)

My pneumatic (air-powered) die-grinder, is one of the most-used tools, I have ever owned. It is really, really handy, cheap to buy and powerful. I buy mine from Harbor Freight Tools for (U.S) $19.99, use it several times a week, and even at that cheap price, I've had them last for ten-years or longer. I typically use it with an arbor and roll-lock abrasive disks, but have mounted a carbide rasp, abrasive cut-off disks, cloth buffer wheels, etc. 400 Liters-per minute amounts to 14.1 Cubic-Feet-per Minute. The 5-Horse-Power, two-stage Ingersol-Rand compressor I use to power my die-grinder, puts out 14.7 CFM or 417 Liters-per-minute, so I think you should be fine with regard to power with a pneumatic die-grinder. Copyrighted photo removed and a link placed into the text

Researching gas forge furnace designs as I plan/build my first unit. As of now, I am collecting parts to build a forge similar to Larry Zoeller's, but am considering ways to potentially improve efficiency: I have been reviewing designs of commercial furnaces with regard to efficiency, and, (roughly speaking,) it seems they seal the inside of the furnace, then provide a Flue/Chimney(s) with a damper(s) to regulate the expulsion of Flue/exhaust-Gases. This helps to reduce heat losses caused by hot air/gasses escaping before heat is transferred. Sealing the furnace also helps to retain and focus I.R. radiant heat, which is the largest component responsible for heating materials placed in the furnace. Coating the interior with high emissivity coatings (like ITC-100) helps with this as well. Also, flue-gases are sometimes used to pre-heat combustion-air, prior to mixing/burning it in the furnace. I have seen burner-tubes, jacketed by exhaust-stacks, for this purpose. Has anyone successfully incorporated these concepts into their small forge furnaces? I was particularly interested in the idea of a chimney/damper, so that the furnace could be sealed and not explode. Maybe I'm over-thinking this, (considering the small size of the furnace,) but a more efficient furnace can be made to run hotter and use less fuel.

Thanks Nate.

Thanks Peter. I've also been checking out "Boiler Repair" in the yellow pages. As you said, shipping heavy bricks is costly so I need to find a local source if possible.

Thanks for the replies. Yesterday I looked in the yellow pages (book and online) and found one listing under "Refractories.") I drove there (20-miles away) but turns out they repair/reline furnaces, but do not sell materials to the public. I'll keep nosing around. Closer to Los Angeles, I'll likely find some firebrick (I guess.)

Thanks for the reply. I'll try a local pottery/kiln supply. Actually, I'm looking for hard firebrick for the floor and porch of a small forge. I have a box of 1-foot-square Kaowool blocks and some soft, porous firebrick, but I only have two hard Laclede firebricks. I thought I read somewhere that hard firebricks were $0.80 each, but not sure on that price. Also want to buy some ITC-100.

Regarding Firebrick, what is a typical Price to pay per brick for Standard firebrick (9x4.5x3.5) and where can you buy it?

I was looking for a large tube/pipe for making a forge. (BTW: I bought a 10-gallon Air Tank today at Lowes, so that problem , for now, is solved, Thanks.) In addition, I need 12-inch diameter, thick-walled (read 1/4-inch) pipe to make four steel cart wheels for an old 1924 Fairbanks-Morse stationary engine. As for the Heavy Plate, well, I've been trying to find an Anvil at a reasonable price ($200 or under) and locally (within 50 - 75 miles) as the shipping costs could add another $100 or more, so I need to pick it up in person. In the interim, some heavy plate would need to suffice. Supposedly an antique shop 20-minutes away has a piece of RR Rail converted to an anvil. I think plate might be better. A couple local antique shops are keeping a lookout for me (anvil), but who knows how that will work out? I had a strange experience the other day at a third antique shop. Saw this 55-Lb, "China" anvil with some wear, painted black, a little rust, on a stump. It looked strangely familiar. The price was $50. After leaving the shop, I drove to Harbor Freight Tools. As I stood there gazing at the HF C.I. Anvil (that looked to be the same item,) a guy walked up and was checking the price of the anvil. I mentioned that a "real" blacksmith wouldn't be all that interested in an HFT C.I. anvil, as they wear quickly, break easily, poor rebound, etc. He said he buys these anvils when they are on "sale," four times a year, at 45% off (or $29,) which they weren't that day (regular $54.) He then said he buy's 'em cheap, paints them black, beats them up/ages them a bit, then displays/sells them at a local antique shop. He went on to describe the scene (wagon wheel, stump, blacksmith tools, etc) that I had just experienced fifteen minutes earlier. Had I shown up there (HFT) five minutes before or after, I never would have met him or heard his story. He said that people just buy them to display, and not really use. Buyer beware.

Wow!!! Appreciate all the replies and suggestions. Lots of great ideas. Thanks Again.

Appreciate the replies/info. As suggested, I was checking out the "Zoeller Forge" website, and it looks like he uses/sells a "Fisher" Regulator, Model number 67CH-743 for $34. Turns out, that there is a Fisher distributor a few miles away. Does that seem a good choice (1/4-inch NPT?) Copyrighted photo removed and a link placed into the text.

Was checking out "Zoeller Forge" website, and it looks like he uses/sells a "Fisher" Regulator, Model number 67CH-743 for $34. Turns out, that there is a Fisher distributor a few miles away. Does that seem a good choice (1/4-inch NPT?) Copyrighted photo removed and a link places into the text