bajajoaquin

Since the SBA guys are posting up.....

The CBA conference has rotated around to San Diego again this year, is anyone here going to attend?

Somehow, I was also volunteered to be the vendor coordinator for the event, so if anyone would like information on how to sell at the event, please let me know by reply or PM.

Here's a youtube video of a similar hammer in action, although I think one of the comments is correct under it... isn't the drive belt supposed to go in front of the idler pulley?

That was my comment, one of the first things I look at on a slack belt drive. The motor pulls the belt tight on one side so the idler needs to be on the other. Otherwise, as the belt gets tight it pushes the idler away.

That's the hammer in the blacksmith shop at Vista Forge our San Diego chapter of the CBA. I've used it, and thought that it was a bit difficult to get to engage. I wonder if that's the reason for it. Now that I know, I'll have to take a look when I'm out there next.

It's a 200lb version, and I understand that there's a nice 100lb hammer at the Henry Ford museum, as well.

I don't know how much commonality there is in parts or designs across models, but I'd be happy to take some pictures if you want. You can let me know by reply or PM.

In my understanding, Quotes are a fixed price contract, Estimates are a guide price. Any taxes to be added at the relevant rate

My understanding for US contract law is a bit different. The difference between quotes and proposals is in the point at which it's a legally binding contract. At what point is "acceptance" occuring?

A Quotation ("Quote") is not a legally binding offer. The process is that you provide the quotation, and the client accepts. When you act on that acceptance, it becomes a contract. So if you write a quote, and then have second thoughts, or whatever, you're not committed.

A Proposal, on the other hand, is considered accepted when the client accepts. So if you write up a proposal, and the client accepts, you're on!

Keep in mind that my understanding is a result of working for a company that produced procurement software for government agencies, and what I learned as a result of that. I'm not formally trained in that capacity.

What I'm gathering here is that with a miscible (i.e. soluble in any concentration) acid, you're looking at what is essentially a liquid compound. With solids, like citric, then you run into the issues with saturation levels. But also note two things:

I'm totally oversimplifying so that I can get my head around it.

I'm only trying to figure out the chemistry well enough so that I can order the right amounts and strengths of acids for some pickles.

Pilots have a saying:

You start with an empty bag of experience, and a full bag of luck. The trick is to fill the bag of experience before you empty the bag of luck.

Aloha, I'm Monchan (didn't really introduce myself in the introductory forums heh) and I wish to get into blacksmithing.
First off, some background. I'm a college student from Hawaii, who has a friend that does a lot of DIY stuff (especially bows. He even wrote a book called 'backyard bowyer'). Back in high school, he would do a lot of wood work and metal work. He used to invite me over to his house and I would watch him do all kinds of crafts.
Long story short, now I wish to get into the blacksmithing field as a hobby. However, I have a few dilemmas that need advice:
1) I live in an apartment. Is blacksmithing even possible for me? (I don't have a garage, nor would security here allow me to setup a forge in the parking lot.
2) What metals are good for starters? Also, are recycled metals bad to use? (AKA old kitchen knives, utensils, etc.)
3) What items can substitute an anvil.
4) On average, how much money is used to maintain this hobby (starters and intermediates?)
5) Can most house hold items be used at blacksmithing tools? Can I use my nail hammer? Regular monkey wrench?

Mahalo for all your answers!

I think that most of your questions have been answered, but let me give it a try in any case.

1. Smithing is possible for you, but not in your apartment. With the mirco-forge mentioned below, you might be able to set up on a lanai or something, but only if you were on the ground floor. The issues are flame and impact. You would need to have and contain a fire capable of heating steel to 1800 degrees, and you will be striking things with a hammer. That's way louder than walking around on a second-story apartment.

The suggestions about finding space are good, and you might also look at some other, oddball options. If you have a micro-forge, could you set up under a tree in the park? Is there an independent study program at a local college? Those are just two ideas that come to mind.

2. For starter metals, you can try lots of things, but the items you listed probably aren't good candidates. You generally want to start with mild steel. That will be easy to forge, and the most forgiving material readily available. The things you listed are stainless and high-carbon steels, and will be problematic.

Good places to look are Home Depot/Lowes/Hardware stores. These are expensive, relatively speaking, but you can get some limited stock for under $10. Next, you might try rebar scrap, but do some searches here. There are definitely issues with it. Next, try some local metal shops. Any places that make gates/window bars? You're not looking for sheet metal, but bar stock. Tell them what you're doing, and they can help you out, either with cheap/free material, or information.

3. An anvil is anything you use to pound metal on. You can't substitute anything for an anvil. You can, however, substitute lots of things for the familiar "London Pattern" anvil that most people think about. Any heavy (25-30lbs or greater) chunk of steel will work. Beyond that, it's a big discussion. I recommend you look in the anvils section, and do some browsing for threads where people want to make their own anvils.

You can find this kind of stuff by asking at the metal shops you're going to start checking out.

4. "Average" is not a good way of looking a things. How about "reasonable?" I just did some math, and you could start up for about $100:

ball peen hammer 24 oz or heaver (better than a claw hammer): $15
Propane torch: $20
Firebrick (found it on Amazon.com): $20
Scrap steel block for anvil (25 or 30 lbs): $20
Steel stock: $10
Hacksaw: $10
Vise grips: $10

That can be made much cheaper if you're a good scrounger. A ball peen hammer can be had at a garage sale or swap meet for $5 or less, steel stock may be free, you may have a hacksaw and vice grips (or get 'em cheap used). Your ongoing costs will be to cover propane and stock for forging. And upgrades.

Assuming you had the space, you could easily triple (or more) that starting cost, and have a pretty nice setup.

5) Household items can be used, but there's a big step up in quality if you make a couple small changes. Use a ball peen hammer rather than a claw (A claw hammer will work, as long as it doesn't have the cross-hatch pattern on the face). A monkey wrench won't work, but vise-grips will (although you'll really prefer really blacksmith tongs eventually). There's lots of threads here on vice grips, also called mole pliers, and you should check them out.

But the four things you really need are: Fire, hammer, anvil, material.

Good luck.

After checking out these replies, and others, I think I've figured it out. One of the issues was that I was always thinking of acids as being liquids, but citric acid is a solid, so "pure" citric acid doesn't make sense as a bath, or as a 100% solution.

So the percent solution thing comes in two different forms:

1) Liquid acids (hydrochloric, sulfuric, etc.), otherwise known as a miscible acid. A 100% solution is just pure acid. The confusion was coming in that you can also describe the strength of the acid in terms of molarity (moles per liter of solution). So, according to the chart Jack provided, phosphoric acid is at 100% at 17.3 moles/liter. My wife was working with acids using molarity, and I was asking in terms of percent solutions.

2) Solid acids (citric). For these, the solution is figured as percentage by weight. A certain number of grams per liter. In this case, you may not get to a 100% solution, since there will be limits on solubility.

If anyone questions this, please let me know. I'm not sure, it's just what I've worked out in the last few days!

I agree with the suggestions to mix the linseed oil with turpentine, beeswax, and Japan drier. I have a quart of it, and it works great.


The only other comment I'd make is about the idea of "tossing" lots of parts into a box. It's likely that, whatever coating you use, you'll have problems with that method. You might be well served to do a quick wrap in newspaper or other packing material. We used to do that in manufacturing retail store fixtures, even when the finish was chrome or powder coat.

The pieces will display better, and have more "curb appeal" if they're undinged when you put them out.

And by the way, didn't the British and Germans have a pretty significant battle over Trondheim in '40-'41?

Please keep in mind that Vista is only a blacksmith shop on Saturdays. The rest of the time it's an antique engine museum, and the smithy is locked up. If you're there on the 16th, it's the level II group. If you make it on the 23rd, you'll be there for the beginning class and open forge day.

If your route isn't set in stone, and you can swing farther South, you could stop in at the Vista Forge. Vista Forge is the local chapter of the California Blacksmiths Association. It's located at the Antique Gas and Stationary Engine Museum in Vista, California (roughly half way between San Diego and Orange County. Every Saturday, they have some sort of classes going on.

Too bad you're not here a couple days later. We're having the CBA spring conference there April 28-May 1.

More details can be found at CBA Vista: Clicky!

Looks better than the edges on mine. Just use it.

I'm looking to passivate some stainless forgings (although reading several of Grant's comments make me think I need to anneal first) and I have come across quite a bit of info. One thing is missing, though. What is the "standard" Molarity for the various acids?

When I asked my wife, a reluctant chemistry teacher, about some of these recipes, she asked about the Molarity of the original solution that you use before dilution

You read about anything from 5% to 30% solutions, but I don't see where the "full strength" acid is defined.

Anyone know the molar concentration of common acids such as citric, muriatic, oxcalic, phosphoric?

Maybe they think it performs better that way. I've read elsewhere (perhaps on Anvilfire) about the way people tend to look at things in anthropomorphic terms. They think of an anvil as "tired" if it droops (or you can think of some other characteristics to apply to it! ).

Perhaps Peddinghaus just thinks that a little bit of down angle is preferable, more ergonomic, or something, and weird impressions be darned.

The edges get filed on mine.

The head of a railroad spike ground to a smooth dome can make a nice plannishing stake for a tableware spoon.

A ruffled edge means you have to much material on the edge. either start with an almond shaped bulb and hit the edges less, or hammer the edge thicker (shrinking).
To shrink an edge get it hot, touch the bottom of the ruffles on the anvil till it just loses color, then hammer the hot material down into itself like upsetting, just don't go too far and collapse the valley you made and create folds.
doing this a few times increases the thickness of the edge but reduces the circumference.
By far easier to just start with a more almond shaped bulb.

Thanks, that's some good insight.

And I'm happy to read that Thomas files his, too. Although I'm still filing more than I want to or should, nice to know that, even after getting it down, I'm still likely to have some touch-up to do.

So I've seen lots of threads on materials and construction techniques, but I'm having trouble making the bowl of my spoons come out even. The edges are all lumpy and misshapen.

I'm assuming that it's a factor of making my initial "bulb" on the end uniform, and then hammering out to a uniform thickness. But are there any tips for getting that uniformity consistently?

... Second is one that was ordered and never picked up. I think it was intended for human branding and I asked too many questions. They didn't come back and all I had was a cell phone number they wouldn't answer. ...

It's a fraternity brand, for (if I remember correctly) Sigma Phi Epsilon. It's one of the "traditionally black" fraternities. If you're a football fan, you can sometimes see the brand at about bicep level on some of the players, especially with the jerseys that fit tight to the pads, and leave the upper arm exposed.

If I could pick only one to use off of this list it would be one of the refflinghaus anvils

Could you share your reasons with us?

Probably not conspiracy. Just the way internet forums work. I put up a question on a military vehicles site, asking for the height of the frame rails on a particular truck. What I got back was seven responses ranging from, "do you have one yourself?" "Your height requirments are wrong" "There are more trees out east than in the West" and several others.

Nobody told me what the frame rail measurement was.

Kind of like my post: I'm still not telling you where to get coal.

:rolleyes:

And where are you? City ordinances are by no means consistent across the country. Or even within a state.

Aren't "bladesmiths" anvils generally a cube of steel without horns? (Allow me some license here, and see where I'm going )

Seems to me that, for a lot less than $4.50 a pound, you could get yourself a really nice chunk of steel as a drop from somewhere, or an old piece of farm equipment that would work for blades and small items. You could probably have your anvil set up including stand, hardware, racks, etc., for a hundred bucks. That would leave you with $350 to spend on the next, reasonably priced, anvil that comes along.

Hey! Congrats on getting married!

Mark<><

Mark,

Thanks. I'm getting married next Saturday.

The CBA is having their periodic instructor training session on Saturday, and members are allowed to tag along to fill up vacancies. Mark Asprey is doing the training. When they announced it back in December, I heard the date, Jan 29, and said, "Doh! I won't be making that one!"

There's a breakdown in your logic. You don't have to give the information to "anyone" you do business with. Just those you intend to write off on your taxes. A big difference.

Sell something to a client? He doesn't need your info. Pay a vendor for steel? You probably all ready have his relevant info. Get a super-bro deal from your friend? You're probably not documenting that one anyway....

The place it could get really sticky is restaurants. Entertain clients, and need to write that off on your taxes? If you're spending more than $600 at a single restaurant in a year as a business expense, then you'll probably need to fork over the info.

More likely, it's designed to reduce fraud. Like back in the '70s or '80s, when the IRS started asking for SSNs of dependents that parents claimed on their taxes. In one year, it "eliminated" millions of kids in the US. The idea is probably to make people think twice about writing off all those lunches with the wife if the documentation is going to be more stringent.

Hey Baja - that post has been deleted...what were they asking?

$200

If it's deleted, I'd guess someone else thought it was a fantastic deal, and snapped it up.

San Diego: Clicky!

Old & heavy, come with accessories. Totally functional, Call for viewing appointment 760-613-9216 or email me at susan@regionalsasles.com. Thank you.

If I hadn't just purchased an anvil, and weren't getting married in two weeks, I'd be all over that!