Ed Thomas

Ten Hammers: That sounds like a good direction to try. I hadn't thought about the old order Mennonite community clothing being fairly close. We meet at the Buggy Shop every month so I'll ask them about it when we meet next. As far as the hat, don't you think A 336 would go over better for a Virginia Civil War era demo hat? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

We finished the roof last week and here are some pictures. In this one, you can see my brother (who is the brains behind the shop) and the crimping tongs beside him at the peak. Here you can see the crimping tools in use. Sorry they aren't very clear pictures but we're not doing this again any time soon to get better ones! Here is the shop so far. Now comes the electrical, chimney, hammer foundation, etc., etc. I'll do the windows and doors when I get tired of all the wind and cold weather next year. I'm tired already.

Jr: Once again... thanks. I like that solution a lot.

Strine: You probably weren't holding your tongue JUST right, and mixed up the order of the hop, skip, hop, hop happy-forge dance steps just as you took it out of the fire.

Well, doggone, Strine... there you went and let me babble on about rockology and you probably forgot more than I'll ever know about granite. :mrgreen:

Dan, sometimes stupidity is just an overwhelming urge, apparently. My friend, the welding instructor, caught a student showing off by arc welding without a helmet or eye protection of any sort -- looking directly into the arc. "Look Ma... No eyes!!!"

Soooo???? What happened? Did you try it out? Did you find out anything else??? Now you got ME curious!

Hollis: I was picturing forging the ends when I envisioned doing it. I guess I could weld also. Thanks. I'll be making one in the near future. Maybe I could forge dragon heads on the end and add a few quatrefoils so I can move this discussion to the blacksmithing forum. :mrgreen:

Hollis: That is pretty interesting. I guess I assumed that there would be too much free oxygen by that method. Now I'm going to have to try it sometime. Yet another helpful tool for the growing arsenal. Glenn: It looks like Pieh Tool Co. also sells it. http://www.piehtoolco.com/ Click on "Welding Compounds"

Strine: That reaction to the first time watching blacksmithing is exactly what I had! I was lucky... the first real demo I saw was Peter Ross. You don't recover from something like that. Hopefully. Jr: Thanks for the extraordinary life story! That was some fun reading. Leah: I'm glad you stuck it out. Your post reminded me of several things. One: A few years ago, I talked the daughter of a friend of mine into taking welding at the local VoTech. I was friends with the welding instructor and knew she would be in good hands. Amazingly, in the 30+ years he'd taught there, he'd never had a female student. This was his final year of teaching and he was actually concerned about it. Of course it all went well and she fit right in. Two: I have seen schools discourage anyone who shows any brains at all from attending the vocational training because it doesn't obviously contribute to the academic track to college. My son had to fight hard to be allowed to go to votech classes for instance, and was almost denied because he was "too smart". But he went from a lackluster student who was beginning to hate school, to a high achiever and went on to do well at college. I attribute his success very much to the votech opportunity. We are doing ALL our kids, both boys and girls, a major disservice by sitting them behind a desk for 12 years and never letting them use their hands. No wonder so many of them are medicated... or self-medicated. Ray: I still have one of your first hooks. And it still looks pretty good.

Hollis: I never had any luck with it the few times I tried, but I see two key hints in your post that would have made the difference -- not having to figure out what to do with the torch, and the slight oxygen starvation. I'll keep your suggestion in mind, as I know it would have come in handy several times in the past. One other idea: I have a gas saver and it is fairly handy. But awhile back I saw someone with a gas saver hard mounted with a foot pedal to actuate the gas valves. Sort of like glass bead folks use, I guess? Anyway, that might be the extra conveniece to make it worth using a torch in that fashion once in awhile. Just put the pieces in front of the torch, press on the gas pedal, let off when it's hot, and take it to the anvil. Hands free!

Does anyone know if the 3-point hitch draw bars are anything special, or are they simple mild steel? I "loaned" mine to someone and it disappeared. So has the loanee. I know they are rated by category, but my tractor isn't a monster. It's a MF utility with the Perkins 3-cyl diesel. Seems criminal to pay for something so easy to make. I could probably finish it in the time it takes me to go to town to get one.

Hi, I'm Ed, and I am an ironaholic. My last snort of coal smoke was at 3:48 PM today. My grandfather was not a blacksmith. Neither was my grandmother... nor was anyone else I ever know of that I was ever related to or ever knew in past lives. I am a blacksheepsmith. I read an article about someone forging in a magazine and expressed an interest loudly enough for my son to hear. He was in a VoTech welding class for 1/2 the day and asked his instructor about making blacksmithing equipment for me as a surprise Christmas gift. Turns out it was the major hobby of the instructor, who helped him build me a forge, RR track anvil, etc., etc. It was the most thoughtful gift I've ever gotten from anyone. It also has had the most impact on my life of any present that I know of. I checked with the instructor and it turns out that he started a local guild and invited me to the monthly meeting the next night. I can't emphasize enough that it was the warmth and generosity of the SVBG group that got me started, and the kickstart of a BGOP Spring Fling two months later, that pushed me into whatever I am today. I have no intention whatsoever of kicking the habit.

Strine: Answer: I don't know. HOWEVER... you will know fairly quickly by trying it. I'm not a rock scientist (just COULDN'T resist), but as I recall, granite is a family of material. A quick research on the web would tell you what's typically in it. For instance, here is one link with a breakdown of likely elements: http://www.championtrees.org/topsoil/australia.htm From the table in this article, it looks like SiO2 is the most prominent ingredient, which you would expect from a quartz family of rocks. Sooo.... if the other elements don't hinder welding (and I don't see why they would), it seems to me that you would be using the equivalent of sand (with other gunk, though) ... which is a valid flux. Put some on a piece of iron. Put it in the forge and bring it carefully to welding heat. With sunglasses or (better) #4 or #5 welding glasses, watch the surface. If the granite dust melts and coats the iron slightly before you reach midrange welding heat, you probably have a flux worth trying.

It never fails. Every time I go to the BGOP Spring Fling, I get so pumped up I can hardly stand it. The food and camaraderie were terrific as always, but I am always stunned whenever I get a chance to experience a Tom Latane demo. I find his mastery of the craft, his carefully complete and lucid teaching style, and his courteous encouraging demonstration techniques to be so riveting that I didn't want him to quit for lunch, dinner, or sleep. I learned more per square inch in his demo than I've experienced since the last time I had time with George Dixon. My only regret is that I'm immersed in shop construction and can't stop everything to immediately practice what we learned. But I keep going over and over it in my head so it will be there when I'm ready. Oh what a weekend :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:

Thanks all. I just got back from the BGOP Spring Fling and will go shopping per your advice. Then I will come back with more stylish questions. :mrgreen:

I seem to have hit a nerve. :shock: I STILL think there is a bit of irrational fear. I heartily support letting the fire go out. It is better for forging, more economical, and much safer, any of which is a sufficient reason. I do not use water in my forge ever. If the fire is wrong, I build it right. When it is time to quit for the day, I pull it apart and let the coals go out. It doesn't take long. Having said that, I did build my new shop with an eye toward having a much less flammable workplace, and will breathe much more easily when I'm moved into it. The coal forge is not really much of a concern... it is sparks from welding, cutting or grinding that always make me nervous. Please don't get indignant at me for advocating unsafe practices. I never leave my forge fire banked overnight. But I do think it is actually less dangerous than an awful lot of ordinary household hazards that we get awfully cavalier about from the greater familiarity.

OKay, Okay... I know this subject has been beat to death in forum after forum but I never paid attention to it because I normally don't mess with period demos. HOWEVER, last night I agreed to demo for a mid-1800's heritage days sort of event in the closest city to me (about 40 miles). Now I'm NOT going to try to find a costume, but I do need to know what to do about a hat. I have to wear a hat when I'm forging, so I might as well try not to be TOO obnoxiously out of era with my typical ball cap that says "Centaur Forge" or "Stihl" or "Massey Furgeson" or whatever. Sooooo... what goes on my head on June 11th???? :?: :?: :?:

I have less of a safety concern about the fire than practical concerns. After all, If you have a fireplace, you leave that on all night. My woodstove runs almost all winter in the middle of the living room. So if you really want to leave your forge smoldering all night, make sure the fire is so contained that it can't burn your shop down. No windows open and so on. I'm not recommending that you do; I'm just saying we sometimes obsess about the forge when we routinely take greater risks inside the house itself. Coal is pretty stable stuff. However, I think it is a bad idea for several other reasons. The smoldering coal doesn't leave a clinker, it creates "fly ash". Yes, you get a bit of coke out of the smoldering process, but you get too much loose debris, in my opinion. This stuff blows around everywhere and raises the percentage of impurities in your fire while you're trying to do things like forge-weld two pieces of mild steel together. I've mentioned before that awhile back, I timed how long it took for me to build a fire and have a forging heat. At seven minutes, I had the head of a RR spike yellow hot. Start to finish. Admittedly, I wasn't goofing off then as I usually do because I was timing myself, but the point is... as Glenn said... it becomes a routine and you just build it right into the day. The firepot should be cleaned at least once a day anyway. This is the time to do that.

Strine: Beautiful work that makes you feel good and smile to look at. Thank you very much for sharing. (sound of much applause) :!:

Glenn, If someone is actually going to try to make these, I will gladly offer what help I can. I just don't recommend it really. I thought they would be much easier than they were. I'm told that when they were available in hardware stores until recently, they were quite salty. I got the impression a set would cost $1,000 or more. I can see why! I tried to cheat and use existing large tongs. It just doesn't make it. You have to carefully custom make tongs for each tool. The blades have to be JUST right, and match perfectly in every direction. When I get some time, I'll take some more pictures. I did discover a way to make a VERY nice handle, like on the end of a snow shovel. They are used on two of the tools. Though there is a good bit of welding and grinding, the elements themselves are forged. I will try to blueprint those sometime. I'll also try to post some pictures of the individual tools if you want.

Glenn, Sorry, but no. They took us quite a few weeks (maybe two months, off and on) to make and I couldn't begin to describe all that goes into them. I'll try to get some pictures up of the various tools with a general idea of how they are used. Basically, my brother brought a worn out set of roofing tools to me, and I forged everything that could reasonably be forged... and fabricated the rest. Without the model in front of you, or a REALLY close familiarity with how the tools are used, I don't think they could be made, even with detailed blueprints. I was reverse engineering them, and now that I'm using them, find faults with how I did things here and there. Another problem is that two of the tools were cast iron at the business end. We cut and welded and machined as close to original as we could get. I think our result is much superior... but it was a very laborious process. My brother knows how to use them, and I'm learning now. The only way to get these tools now is to find them, since they are not manufactured any more. New construction standing seam roofing, I'm told, is done with fancy electric seamers that take a lot of the drudgery out of the process. The reason for keeping familiar with these tools is primarily to be able to re-roof old structures where the roof is not straight and even enough for the unforgiving modern tools. As far as the strictly forging work involved, you could say they are just big tongs and let it go at that. :mrgreen:

My brother and I made the roofing tools late last year, and finally get to try them out. We made two sets, each of which has 6 tools. The novelty of shaping sheetmetal roofing with our own custom-made tooling wore off a little earlier than I hoped. But we're still chugging along. In this picture I staged one of the bending tools on the bend it made. This particular run will go on the end of the roof. I'm learning this from my brother as we go along. In this picture, you can see the stacks of 30 already prepared sheets. This is enough to do one side. Each sheet is just over 19' long and just under 24" wide. So my shop chugs along, which is why I have so little to share in the way of forging work.

Woodtick: Nobody answered your question about charcoal dust directly, so I guess you'll just have to try it and get back to us. Actually, I'm sure the charcoal dust will do some good. I presume you are referring to actual good charcoal, not the barbecue briquet dust, but either one will probably work. The lubricant is actually what's left after the coal dust burns away. Unless the charcoal dust is 100% pure carbon, there ought to be some benefit.

Tyler: VERY nice. Thanks for sharing these. It is always such a treat to see the other arts, especially from someone connected to iron.