Ed Thomas

Glenn: Excellent!

I'd say that's a much better version of spousal abuse than something like: "How come I get the rejects?"

Not that... um... anyone I know would have any reason to be... ah... er... accused of that.

yesteryearforge: :mrgreen: Welllll.... you know what I mean. My forge has a 12" x 12" firepot which is fairly deep. Heating a 2" or larger bar can generate quite a lot, and in my case more than enough to blister paint and burn zinc off.

oakwoodforge: I used the normal off-the-shelf stuff from the hardware store. Both mixed in a spray gun, and straight spray can. It looks like they are really only good for 1000

Judging from what happens to all the pipe I've used so far on my forges, I'd say it gets too hot for galvanized. The zinc always burned off pretty quickly. So I don't use that anymore just from the practical point... never mind the severe health hazard.

oakwoodforge: What temp does that stuff go up to? I've used hi-temp paint on my forge components, but it doesn't last long. I can't imagine it doing any better than what the black stovepipe comes with already.

I just installed 10" stainless pipe. It is outrageously expensive. I'm hoping it lasts a few years. The only place I could find it was McMaster Carr. I figure now that I hocked futures on my first 3 grandchildren to afford it, somebody will tell me where I can get it for 1/3 the price. Only the price of one grandchild, in other words. :|

woodtick: The rules are VERY strict for bick anvils. They MUST be exactly the shape and dimensions you want. Or at least exactly what they turn out to be when you forge them.

:shock:

They are just a tool. Make one to suit the tasks you have in mind. If you have to have better guidance than that, then I'd suggest that the one I own, and most that I've seen are roughly equal lengths of a tri-sided figure. So each end of the bick is about the same length as the main shank is tall. You can get away with longer or shorter. Get the main shank as big as you can get away with, but the real vulnerability is the hardie hole or pexto plate in which you support it. So you can sort of figure your dimensions based on the size of the hardie (square) hole... whatever it will support.

Bruce Willoughby: There is nothing wrong with trying to support your new habit. But you've barely begun to prod the very edge of an enormous new discipline. There is room for selling knick-knacks to tourists, but like all skills you MUST get the fundamentals down in order to make things well. That takes time and dilligence. It will rapidly become a J-O-B if you just chase the dollar and don't work to master the craft. That's when people reach for fabricating solutions. Trying to find the fastest easiest way to make the minimum product to pass on to people that "don't know the difference".

"Git 'er done" is funny... but is wrong.

So... to answer your immediate question, do simple elegant things perfectly. You can sell drive-in and nail-in hooks fairly easily. If you make a few hundred of those, it will give you the chance to zone and watch your hammer technique. There is actually a lot in those things for you to learn.

Make functional things, such as plant hangers, pot racks, curtain rods, and towel racks. Do them simply and RIGHT. Make dozens of them. If you can make them all alike, you will be making serious progress. You'll see your control improve and your understanding of the forging process deepen, while having something to sell when you are done.

The high-end customer is out of your reach. The low-end customer wants something for a $20 bill and some change back. And they want something they can justify. So make it functional, simple, and clean.

There is a craft co-op near me, as well as a store that doesn't demand a whole lot of commission. When you get to NC, look for for outlets that you can supply. Join the nearest guild. Most of my low-end stuff comes from contacts there. People passing people on to me. The higher end stuff comes from other contacts I've developed from doing work.

The appeal of ironwork is tactile as much as visual. Until we can market in 3-D on the internet, I doubt it will ever be a good selling medium for iron.

Glenn: Why as a matter of fact it is. Of course, Tony pretends that this grog holder is a special tool

http://www.iforgeiron.com/Blueprints/BP0044Candle_pans_cups_05/BP0044Candle_pans_cups_05.htm

But I think its real purpose is all too plain.

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Bruce, I think you've got it. I rummaged around here and there and believe I've discovered at least some of the missing hints that would have made this obvious.

For instance, if this rum cup holder had been right there, we'd have known that a cigarette paper holder couldn't be far away:




And if we'd seen this tool for efficiently stamping the moistened paper in place and lighting the cigarette at the same time:




But all along, the real clue was right in front of us... the hazards of leaving a lit cigarette on your head while you work:



Now we know.

Hollis: I thought that middle tool was a hardie tool (bottom tool)? None of them look like good mates for each other, so I just presumed we're seeing a sample, rather than all that were in the shop at one time. The middle tool looks a little like i could be one of the wagon tools listed in Richardson, though.

bgott: Junior brings up a good point... do you know if this was a farming community shop, in town shop, or industrial shop?

bgott: Here's the picture for easier perusal.

I see that your question was hit 34 times already and still you have no answer. So I will say also: "I dunno."

The picture isn't quite clear enough to see the detail on the groove, but it looks like it is just a straight slot. With a top and bottom tool, it is possible that it was a special tool for some common needed hardware item which that particular shop provided. In all of MT Richardson's, the only bottom tool I could find even close to this is in Volume 1, page 156 Figure 131. "A tool for bending flat pieces and making T pieces".

However, I can picture some uses for it in a general forging sense. The tool will allow you to make a quick sharp right angle on a fairly narrow piece of steel. It will also set both sides of a ridge that you previously roughed out. And if you forge both edges of a narrow flat bar that fit between the top and bottom tool, they would combine to set the edges AND ensure the two wings were parallel. Imagine a lower case 't'... or a '+'.

Any given blacksmith shop will have as many mystery tools than comprehensible ones if it's old enough, because you make a tool to do a job and might never use it again.

Hollis:

Hmmm... I might have to skip the 4x4's because I already poured the pad and that would take the hammer up higher than I'd like. Do you think that the compression and shock absorption of the 2" thick wood isn't adequate? I'll go to 4" if you really think it's a big deal.

The reservation I have with the rubber pad is the mounting bolts. If I use something inherently sproingly like that, don't I need special shock absorbing bolts? I already bought the threaded rod and epoxy and drill bit! If you found it to not be an issue, let me know. In other words, what did you bolt it down with?

Thanks.

Hollis (or anybody): Seems like you recommended a hard rubber mat under your Beaudry. Have you used wood? Is there a down side to it? I'm about ready to move the hammer onto the foundation and I'm really leaning to fastening pressure treated 2"x10" (or similar) to the concrete. I'm even considering just a sheet of 3/4" pressure treated plywood. Got any thoughts?

Don A:

My personal recommendation for your first welder as a blacksmith is the O/A torch. Welding with it is a little harder to learn, but once you get it, you will really understand the welding process. It is actually easier for me to weld thin stuff with a torch than with the 225AC. Once you get up around 1/2" thick, welding with a torch is downright painful, though.

But the advantage of the torch is that is a much more flexible blacksmithing tool than the arc welders. With the torch, making tenons, collars, and rivets is so much easier you might sometimes wonder how you did without it. You can locally heat parts that are already assembled for adjusting and bending. It is great for heating a completed piece for applying a finish.

You can take a torch set anywhere. You don't need to find a welder outlet.

But wait:!: There is more :!: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

It slices it dices it cuts holes and brazes. It is about the only tool for hot shaping of large sheet metal. It just about does your dishes!

I like the convenience of the AC225 and my Millermatic, but if I could only have one welder, I'd pick the torch. Please keep in mind that this is my recommendation for most useful in a hot forging shop, rather than a predominantly fabricating shop.

Like you, I tend to acquire things and THEN figure out how they work. If you've never used a torch, spend a good bit of time reading about it and asking questions. If you can find someone to help you get started, that would be really good. It's not a trivial tool, and can be intimidating as you learn to use it.

Thanks, Hollis. I intended to paint anyway, though I probably should use the hi-temp paint on chimney brackets just to hedge my bets.

I'm using 10" stainless ductwork for my forge chimney. Does anyone know if I can safely use ordinary mild steel for hangers and brackets? I have this nagging feeling that I read something somewhere about inducing corrosion in the stainless if you do that. Some of the brackets will be outside, exposed to the weather.

If the contact of S/S and M/S is a bad idea, can I get away with cutting strips from one piece of the stainless duct as a sacrificial buffer between the duct and the bracket? :?:

Mr Oakwoodforge:

You can draw anything you want in Paint or similar sketching program and load it to the gallery as a picture. Then imbed the picture in your post by using the Img button in the editor you used to enter your message here. One problem with ASCII pictures is that each user has different settings on their screen which can distort your intention past recognizable.

A caution I have with being over-zealous in shaping the handle is that I tend to use the entire length of the handle at one time or another, depending on what I do. So I try to make the whole handle friendly. With that in mind, the store-bought shapes really aren't that bad; they are just too oval.

Daryl: I was surprised that you feel insufficient attention is paid to hammering and fire management. I sorta thought we were getting inundated with these two topics, and too little attention was paid to forging itself. For instance, if you read woodworking magazines, I bet you'd have to work pretty hard to find articles on the correct techniques for hand-sawing and hammering. But you would find the journals teeming with information on how to do classy joins and complex wooden structures. About every other demo I've seen for quite a few years, the demonstrator shows something about hammer control, the fire, and his preference for tools. My guess is that each hammer handle and preference has something unique to each individual and we all feel strongly that we have the right answer.

This is a good thing, of course. I'm just saying I think sometimes we should get on with it; use the excellent fire management and well-shaped tools to make things.

T-Gold: I'm not sure what you are saying. "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" was written by Alexander Weygers. So do you mean that you like the book, but don't recommend it to beginniers?

If that is the case, I concur. It is a fun book, but probably not a good step-by-step manual for a methodical introduction to blacksmithing skills.

Tinker:

There is no harm in putting the damper on the outlet. The motor doesn't work any harder, at least according to everyone I've asked that deals with motors and air flow. I've seen the damper on either side, but it seems more effective as a gate for the forge on the downstream side of the blower. My blower is also a 240V motor... but at 60~ we got more hertz than you. :D

hmmm.... wish I knew a little more to be more helpful to you, but I doubt it's the switch. I suspect that the motor is not a variable speed motor, and that is how I'd expect the motor to behave if it isn't variable speed. A dimmer switch is nothing more than a variable resistor, so you are putting a load in series with the motor... basically dropping voltage before the current gets to the motor. So I think you might be trying to run the motor at less than it's rated voltage and at some point you are at risk of burning it up.

It is probably worth a little research on your part to match a motor and controller if you want variable speed.

However, a simpler solution is to run the blower at normal speed and put a gate in the hose between the blower and your fire. Not only is this safer for the blower, but it allows you immediate and finer control of the air flow. Variable speed motors have to ramp up to speed, and coast to slow down. The damper simply throttles or widens as fast as you move it.

If you don't want to make your own slide or butterfly damper (which are pretty easy, really), you can buy different sizes online or from hardware stores where they sell dust collection systems.

skillaid:

ABANA was founded in Georgia. There are blacksmiths pretty much behind every tree down there. Here's the map for the ABANA groups nearest you:

http://magichammer.freeservers.com/abana_image_map.htm

Welcome.

T-Gold: Which book? :?: :?:

Bruce:

I'd be very interested to hear your opinion on the books, especially as you use them and gain in skill. What helped the most; what confused you. What gaps did you discover that you had to fill somewhere else.

The problem with any recommendation is that each person learns slightly differently than everyone else. Also, each of us finds some things trivial that someone else finds nearly insurmountable (and vice versa). That's why I think it is so important to get your hands on several different books before buying them.

For instance, the other book that the librarian handed me was also a TAB publication and I even recognize the name of the author: Jim Converse. It is: "Beginning Blacksmithing with Projects". It looks like it might be good for some people, but I don't feel comfortable recommending it. Partly because he uses techniques I don't, and partly because the flow of the instruction seems like it might be awkward to me. Yet someone else might come on here and say it was the very book that inspired them to greatness while I'm rather lukewarn with it.

I just got a book from our library system that looks fairly decent for beginners:

"The Practical Handbook of Blacksmithing & Metalworking"

Copy and paste that in Google to get a source to buy it used if you want.

It was published in 1980 by TAB books, written by Percy Blandford. Never heard of him, but TAB books have been around awhile. Normally, I don't care for their books, but this looks good.

I didn't even ask for a blacksmithing book. Our library is a room in the old elementary school building. We don't have any school here now... the kids all bus out to the nearest town. But the old building serves as a community center. I mention this to point out the size -- one elementary classroom, and at least 1/2 of that is kid's books. Of the other half, much is donated pulp paperbacks and so on. But the key is that we can get anything the county has. The population of the county is about 100,000 strong now and the library in the county seat tries pretty hard.

What I told our librarian was, when she went downtown next, to keep an eye out for drawing books. I told her I wanted volumes I could use to learn how to sketch better so I won't feel so clumsy when I try to draw what I'm going to forge, or to describe for a customer.

The next time I saw her, she had a big stack of book on drawing, two on blacksmithing, and three on woodworking(??? -- not sure how those fit in my request ) So don't just search on your own, ask the librarian. You might be surprised what is in the system.

And don't rule out the online used book sellers. I've done very well using them, too. For instance, almost all my machining books came from:

www.abebooks.com

They are a clearinghouse for vendors all over the world, and you can shop for the best price of all that is up for sale.

Of course I checked what I could out of the library first to see which ones I liked most. :mrgreen:

Ironsmith & Rick Barter:

I highly endorse the recommendation for the book by Peter Parkinson, but disagree with the Bealer book for a beginner. At one time, it was one of a very few books available so is on a lot of bookshelve. The problem with the Bealer book is that almost everything in it is incomplete and there are even errors. As interesting reading, fine. But it is nearly impossible to use it as a textbook, or a how-to manual. At $9.95 (or whatever it is now), it is very tempting to buy it instead of the pricey Parkinson book, which I do understand. But I think the Parkinson addresses your question MUCH, MUCH better.

Other good choices, off the top of my head are "The New Edge of The Anvil", by Jack Andrews and "A Blacksmith Primer" By Randy McDaniel (in this order of preference for me).

Somewhat cheaper is "Plain and Ornamental Forging" by Ernst Schwarzkopf. It is very good; written 100 years ago, so its writing is a bit stylized. He wrote it as a text for his students at a trade school.

You could buy one or two for now, trusting that we won't steer you too far wrong, and then attend a good-sized blacksmith convention. The bigger the event, the more book vendors to choose from. That way you can leaf through the books and see what it is that you want.

Also, check with the blacksmithing group nearest you. We have our own library in our guild, as does most every other club. Check the county library. I'm always pleasantly surprised to find what they have or can get for me. Both these options will save you from buying something you don't like. Bealer's book is in most libraries so you can see if I'm all wet for free. :)

The handle is just as important as the head, both for effective hammer control and a healthy arm. The problem in making a board-general recommendation for hammer handles is that only you can feel what is effective, and that will be based on your own peculiar physique. For instance, there are lots of people who pay $100 for a Uri Hoffi club with the short little handle and declare that it solved all their hammering problems. If you look at Uri's build, it sorta makes sense.

But if you take the recommendation of Nol Putnam and Josh Greenwood (both of whom have helped salvage damaged arms of other blacksmiths) you will have a very long, narrow handle. Again, look at the difference in their body shape. Nol says the handle should be approximately the length of your forearm.

So both extremes are reasonable, and most of us will be somewhere in between.

One thing almost all the smiths seem to agree on is to square up the handle. That is, instead of being oval, sand or shave the handle so it is retangular in cross-section. If you curl your hand, and look through the hole that would be gripping a hammer handle, you can see that your fingers don't form an oval -- they form a series of soft edges as each finger joint makes the next bend.

If you do that, your hand will immediately relax considerably.

There are two parts to learning to relax. One is to focus on hammering without tension. That can be taught but you can usually do it yourself once you figure out your supposed to pay attention to it. The other part is to keep adjusting the hammer handle until you feel that it is helping you to relax.

Instead of learning to "build up strength", try learning to "build up relaxation". The strength will come.