Ian

The computer fan might not have the 'guts' for a solid feul forge, so, just as a suggestion, try taking a ride to your local car wreckers. Find a rear shunt and open the bonnet, look around inside (usually towards the windscreen/shield inside the engine bay) and you'll find a blower that will more than do the job. Every car has a hot/cold air blower these days. With a bit of extra work you can get the wiring loom so you have at least a three speed switch to work it too. It's 12v so you can run it off a car battery(making it ideal for mobile forges) or car battery charger. Reasonably quiet while running and with all the guts you need.
Just a thought (and one I keep telling people about).

I was lucky to get the chance to do some travelling and I met a LOT of Blacksmiths, well over a hundred in fact. I actually worked with over 30 in their shops around the world. I've learned from 6th Generation Master Blacksmiths in Holland to Sammi Blacksmiths in Sweden. I've been to some of the best Colleges in Europe dedicated to Smithing and briefly assisted some of the living (and sadly now passed away) Legends. I was incredibly lucky.

I enjoyed every second of it ALL but I tell no lie when I say I gained the most enjoyment from my time in Australia. There's this bloke in Wesburn, dry as a bone, sharp as a knife, who has an incredible talent for making you THINK about things. He's as keen to figure things out as you are so you never feel like your being lectured, and he's a lot better than he thinks he is, or is willing to let on (I say this with MY experience of Blacksmiths). He's an all round top sort and one of two hidden gems in Oz.

Stick with that bloke and he'll take you far Bully, a lot farther than you think and he'll admit.

I was born in England in 1975 and yet I know who Quick Draw McGraw is, and who Snagglepuss is, and who Deputy Dawg is, and Bullwinkle Moose too for that matter with his mate Rocky the flying Squirrel. We got a lot of the american cartoons here when I was growing up from Warners Loony Tunes to the Hanna-Barberra stable. Tom and Jerry were favourites as a kid, as was the Roadrunner and Coyote (Tex Avery was a genius).
When I was a teenager the Japanese cartoons came in, redubbed into English and often with a totally different story from the japanese original too. Transformers, Ullysees, Lost City of Gold etc.
Now there's a good mix from England, America (I'm sorry but Sponge Bob ROCKS) and japan, if you've got the cartoon network then your laughing.

Ah if I could spend all day in front of the telly..............

Having reread the entire thread I'm drawn to the following conclusion:


Although there is no true 'one size fits all' ratio for hammer vs anvil there is a definate and common sense approach that can be taken:

If it 'LOOKS' wrong, then chances are it 'IS' wrong. Your biggest concern should be ensuring the work and NOT the anvil takes a beating irrespective of the size of the hammer.

As for anvil size:

The function of an anvil (IMO) is to provide a SOLID and IMMOVABLE mass for hot steel to rest on whilst being struck with the hammer. This is important because the more immovable the mass in the anvil is the more kinetic energy can be imparted into the piece being worked.

You have to imagine the hot steel is acting as a shock absorber when struck, taking the kinetic energy from the hammer and deforming under the blow as energy is REFLECTED from the mass of the anvil back into the piece instead of moving through. Although some kinetic energy will be lost to the ground the larger portion will be used to deform the steel.

In theory if you had a section of 4'' square bar four feet long and buried it on end you would have a larger mass under your hammer than if you used an anvil on a stand with a 4'' face.

You'd move more on the square bar if everything else was equal.

A personal observation:

I was out in the yard today forging coat hooks on my 2cwt Brooks anvil. It stands on a composite wooden stump thats exactly the size of the anvils footprint. Where I work the ground is a little uneven and the anvil was rocking maybe a mm or so. I found that if I struck near the horn the anvil rocked a tad and rang a lot, but if I struck just off the middle of the face on the heel end it didn't rock at all and it barely tinged. In fact it produced a dull boom from the concrete the stump was resting on and my piece moved a lot more. Everything felt 'solid', exept the iron. I reckon thats what I should be after ALL the time.

Steve, why are you apologising? There's no need to.

All you're doing is showing what you have, what you work with, and how you find it works


Good on you for doing it, more should

Matt, I pulled this from over the road at Anvilfire....

''Quote has been reworded:
The anvil and hammer should be of reasonable size for the work being done. A ratio of 1:50 hammer weight vs anvil weight is the norm. This translates into a 2 pound hammer for a 100 pound anvil."

part of a larger article on selecting an Anvil. It's an ineresting read.


I have deleted the quote from the Anvilfire site as Jock Dempsy of Anvilfire has stated that NO amount of material or text can be copied from Anvilfire and used on another site. I have however rewritten the material and inserted it as a reworded quote

Very nice rose, I like it. I'm guessing its a composite piece as opposed to one piece? Good looking table too. One of the big challenges is getting good shots of your work, essential to build up a portfolio that sells you. I'd try extra, 'soft' lighting or a tripod to eliminate hand shake (use the timer after you've set up the shot) and a slower exposure. It'll absorb more of the ambient light and show the details better.
A good photo taken from what you think is the most flattering angle will be your only record of the piece after it's sold or given away so it's worth getting the best result you can. Sometimes it's even worth having the work done professionaly, but as I'm not rich I'm learning how to take good pictures instead.

Or you could knock up a handcrank blower using an old bycycle for bits and some sheet metal. Sure there's something in one of the free pdf books (the African one I think) but it's not that complicated a design.

Bargain! Thanks for the heads up.

You know I reckon a new thread on 'Deals and Steals' would be a great idea, like you say, even though you've got it, doesn't mean someone else isn't looking. We'd all save.

I did a bit of digging too, Stourbridge is the name of a town about 120 miles away from London, near Birmingham. There's records of some other well known anvil and metalworks being in the general area (Vaughns, Peter Wright and Sons etc).
I found reference to the name Nash on the national archives website here in the UK that put them in Stourbridge from at least 1850, so your Anvil could well be over 100 years old.

This is a document reference I came across that I'd like to see first hand....

[no title] 705:260/4000/848 19th cent.


1 item

Contents:
Lithograph of Broadwell Forge and Constitution Hill Works, Peter Wright and Sons' Vice and Anvil Works, patentees of the solid box vice and solid horn anvil. Dudley.

Like I said before, my compliments on an excellent design solution. Very clean, simple and effective.

I like it, especially the little 'keyways' you made for the cross bar, VERY nice design solution. Only thing to watch for, maybe, is the points of those 'fleur de lys'. You might find that the roll catches on them as it turns. Tweaking them out a bit further would fix the issue should it arise.

If it is spring steel (and it sounds like it) then you should forge it at a slightly lower temperature than mild steel. Orange yellow and down from there to cherry red. Some of the really old books say cherry red as a starting point for spring and tool steel but one things for sure. Quenching spring steel in water from non magnetic will make it hard and brittle. You'd need to temper it to take out the brittleness, if it hasn't already cracked. You'll find how to do that by searching the site. BTW some carbon steels are air hardening so even if you dont quench at all they will still harden. What you need to do is forge it then anneal it. Find either a bucket or vessell big enough to hold all of the piece and fill it with wood ash (or you can use vermiculite and pearlite, often used in kitty litter). Heat the steel to non magnetic and then cover it with the wood ash. It acts as an insulator and lets the piece cool very slowly, without all the science what this means is that it doesn't get hard or brittle. There's a whole raft of detailed info about what happens to steels as they are heated and the chemistry involved right here on this site. Dig around.

You might find this link handy mate, take a good look at the photo's, blow them up if needs be.

There's another one on the tour of a forge i made entirely out of a stack of housebricks and the rose it produced.

Good luck

http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/f19/new-breakdown-forge-6602/

Ragnarok,
I first met John at last years BABA meeting with Moony (the Oz Anyang rep) and afterwards went up to see his 'shed' in Manchester. As a Yorkshireman I'm bound by several hundred years of history to have a peg at him because he's a Lancastrian, but I can't

He's a completely genuine bloke, hospitable to a fault (beer AND pizza, nice work John) and he knows his stuff backwards, forwards and sideways. If you just want to look and play then he won't hold it against you, John knows the quality of his stock. He makes all the mods needed so that HE is happy to sell them. I not saying that it's the cheapest option, but John is your BEST option if your serious, his aftermarket care is second to none. I know for a fact he's spent hours on the phone with clients talking them through any problems when he'd make a lot more cash out on the shop floor. If and when my ship comes in I wouldn't consider using anyone else in the UK to buy an air hammer from.

As David points out trying to weld cast iron is a bit of a 'Yoda' job (Do or do not, there is no try ) Preheating is important, the right welding rods are crucial, and letting it cool evenly and slowly is paramount. I welded a piece of cast iron on the arms of an old drill press that went brilliantly right up to letting it stand and cool, at which point it went 'plink' and cracked. Second time I left the arm in the fire on a bed of yellow/orange coals (without any air) and welded it, then let the lot slowly die down until the fire was cold. No 'plink' and the drill press is now in daily use. Oh, by the way, I did say weld IN the fire, coke, coal, and charcoal are excellent conductors. (Another gem from Dale Russell)

I'd recommend it........ LMAO

Many happy returns Richard :D

Funny I stumbled across this post three days after getting hold of a 6ft tall copper water tank for free. Intend to use the copper for some repousse work, dishes being a probable project too.

I've seen bowls spun in copper, and brass and even steel, none of them had holes in the middle, the machine clamped from either side of the plate.

By the way, that Dalek looks the dogs mate, top bombing

Not to sound like a nuggget but I'm curious about the 'turbine' that slips onto the end of the burner. It it meant to spin or is it fixed?
I don't see anything about it from the various photo's that makes me sure it actually moves. I'm guessing it is fixed and the air running over and through it is what imparts spin to the air?
Are those nozzles available in the UK?

I'm with Avadon. Learn and UNDERSTAND the fundamentals, it's paramount.

Regardless of the skill or trade or craft or art unless you do so you will either never reach your true potential or waste a lot of time getting there.

One of the great things about Smithing and metal working is the variety of branches you can explore, but you'll find it far more rewarding doing so when you have a solid foundation to work from.

Just my tuppence

Propane or butane tanks are designed to contain a liquified flammable gas. They're pressure vessels and are built as such The fact that they are often of a shape and size that makes them potentially useable for other purposes is mint imperial (immaterial). They are meant to hold liquid gas, end of story.
Cutting into an empty tank is potentially very dangerous, and is not something to just 'go and do'. John N offered up advise similar to what I would have done, firstly make sure ALL the liquid gas has emptied out and crack the valve wide open with the tank upside down. Leave it for at least 24hrs then VERY carefully remove the valve. Fill the tank with water till it overflows. Water doesn't want to burn anywhere near as much as Propane or Butane in my experience and if the tank is full of water it CANNOT be full of anything else.
Empty out the water and then begin cutting the tank. Abrasives or saws are better than gas axes.
I would NEVER, EVER, EVER cut into any gas tank than hadn't been FULLY purged first.

That is a very nice piece of work Dief, every right to be happy with that one

I stand corrected on the venturi effect, I said it based on the literature that came on an old vacuum pump I had that worked by blowing very high pressure air through one pipe and across the top of another, it sucked the air out of the pipe making a vacuum. They said it was a venturi, so we were both wrong

Live and learn

I made my own hammer's with Glenn Moon from Autralia. I prefer them to any other

My swing I've tried to develope using the principles of bio mechanics as a guide. Depending on the power I need my swing could involve up to five of the bodies major joints as well as many of the minor joints (the fingers on my hand for example). Most of the time it's four; my back, shoulder,elbow and wrist, the fifth being my hips. I did a lot of watching and then a lot of experimentation with one inch pine boarding. More back, less shoulder, more snap to the wrist etc etc etc. For a given sequence of movements and amount of exertion the depth of the dent gave me a bench mark to work from. From that I found something that works very well for me, I can hammer without overstressing any one link in the chain that forms my swing and get the most out from the least in. Added to that through other teaching I learned about getting my hammer back by using the rebound, a further save on energy so I can forge for longer.
The quality of the hammer is a moot point if you cant swing it for toffee, find a good technique first, then you can actually guage what makes a decent hammer to begin with and buy the right one.