Ian

No Adrian, (reread the dimensions I posted above mate), however you're entirely right in thinking doing one big enough to use as a bench seat is a good idea. The one I'm working on now will be big enough to hold a bottle and a pair of glasses (Party Jellyfish ) Doing a seat sized piece will have to wait until my Forge is up and running. I've got the greenlight for it on a City Farm and it's under construction as I type so hopefully it won't be months till I can make a big piece like that.

I have a blower from a Kodak photo processing machine. Squirrel Cage type, cap on blower is twin bore, looks like a shotgun. It fed two pipes so I'll use it to power the forge and create a forced air chimney.

redanvil,

quote: (# of heats BS)

To make MONEY at Blacksmithing for one, and to prevent excessive scaling marring work for another and in fact many other GOOD reasons (check out the effects of overheating and overworking on tool steels for instance) the number of heats needed to do the job should be kept to a minimum. It is FAR from BS. The less heats you take to do the job the better, so you should be aiming to improve on how much work you do per heat. I accept fully that it took me about four or five FULL heats to do a leaf say, when I first started, now I can do them comfortably in two. That means less fuel burned, more made per hour = higher returns.

Please don't take this as a personal attack, is isn't, but rather putting a wrong idea right.

As one of the Three (or maybe it's four) folks who learned with Dale and stuck with it I have to say he's bang on. If this (Blacksmithing) is somthing you LOVE doing then I don't care what you have to use to do it. End of.

I would say from personal experience that you get a lot further and faster by learning from the deck up, the bare bones onwards. It's the most natural way to learn in the world don't forget, once upon a time you didn't have the faintest idea of how to even walk let alone use complicated tools. Learning takes time.

I have the most TREMENDOUS respect for what used to be called 'Time Served' Tradesmen. If you've been doing whatever it is you do for 10 years or more then it's a fair guess you're not a muppett. Nor should you be treated as such.
I was SO lucky to meet and learn from many such men (and the occassional woman too) while I was travelling. Every single one of those folks represented a VAST repository of HARD won knowledge and experience (one that they happily shared) that I could use to further my own skills. It's both humbling and inspiring as a novice to see a Time Served man at work and that's WHY I have Tremendous respect for them.

People like Rich, and Dale, and Moony, and a lot of others here are time served men to me, and every single one of started from the bottom and worked their way up.

I use a swage block (the Jellyfishes head was made on the swage block, [see Sculpture, Yard Art section]) and my anvil. Rings made from different sized round bar, with various diameters work quite well. I've used rings made from round bar with square shanks welded on. The most used had a ring made from 1" round bar turned so it had a 1 1/2" inside diameter. I've also used the end grain on wooden stakes and burnt them to keep warm afterwards :D

I have a length of small chain with a belt clip at one end and the keys I need to carry staggered down it. Two bunches really, home and work. On one bunch is a leaf keyfob and on the other is a mini horseshoe. Folks tend to notice them on the tube (if your sat down they appear at eye level) but mainly I use them as a "Yes REALLY, I'm a Blacksmith, here, LOOK..." When what I do comes up in conversation with people.

sorry doubled post

There's no reason a spring swage should break a lot or be hard to line up at all if it's made properly.
Locating pins, or guides, sort the first problem. and making a properly shaped spring with proper temper (if using Spring Steel) sorts the other.
I worked with Moony from Oz and he used (and made) more than a few spring swages, made right they're a joy to use.

Seems to be a lot of us thinking of the seaside lately. This piece is about 8' by 8' by 10''. Its about 90% done, still debating finishing touches. Already working on her 'Big Sister' As always comments are welcome.

Just as a 'think on'......

You need a cheap controlable source of air under enough pressure to run a forge yes?

That means idealy something (fanwise) thats built to shift a lot of air through narrow ducting. If it has at least four speed settings all wired up even better yes?

Chances are your about six feet away from one just like that everyday.

Even better chance you can get hold of that one pretty cheap from an autowreckers.

Running it from a 12V battery makes it portable and mains power independant and quite possibly capable of hours of service. (you can take two batteries if you can take one)

For the workshop you could possibly run it from a cheap battery charger, cheap and cheerful.

Make sense to anyone?

If thats how you want to make it then make it that way, it all boils down to what you want to make.

If you want to make them quickly then pre cut templates from sheet (personally I'd use stainless steel) dished and then riveted to pre made handles (I'd make everything from stainless if it was me, really) is certainly faster. Look in any home supplier and you'll see spoons and ladles like that, they're mass produced items.
To readily seperate somthing you've made in that manner from a mass produced item your 'expression' as a Smith would naturally fall into the area of the handle. A simple twist for instance would be quick to do but instantly identify the piece as 'worked' as opposed to 'mass produced'.

The other method you describe involves a lot of forging for an item that would appeal to a much more select clientele so to produce items this way would only serve as an exercise (to know you can) and afterwards as a showcase (to show you can) until such time as someone takes it for the money you need for it. If they run out of the door at silly money then have at it, but otherwise you have to take everything into account.

erm..... Saturday? ;)

If you can get down to London this weekend (Saturday, 11am till 4.30pm) I'm doing a mobile forge Demo Day on a local City Farm. It's at Stepping Stones City Farm, Stepney Way, London (they have a website, as I can't remember the postcode, it's just down the road from my place you see).
Don't expect any great revelations or all the bells and whistles but there'll be a fire, a couple of anvils and a mad Yorkshireman battering seven bells out of something. I'd be happy to show you a few pointers (not that I know bugger all mind you).

WAYNE!!!! HA HAAAA! G'Day Bloke! How the (insert Aussie slang) are youse? Course I remember you mate, I had a great time at Timbertown and it was a privelidge to see you work. Great to see you found this place, hope it'll be of interest to you, it's a pleasure to welcome you aboard.
Oh BTW did you lads get that big old hammer up and running? :D

I saw this mob a while ago myself and asked for info, not because I believe a ruddy word they say but to see how deep the rabbit hole was.
I mean there I was spending thousands (all six of them I could scrounge) sleeping in my car, in a tent, even a snowhole, navigating through foreign lands and foreign'er' languages for nearly two years to learn somthing I could have just sent off $200 for. BOY do I feel like a proper mug!
These people are a bunch of..... barstools, and I want them gone.

I love the fact that every Englishman (myself included) who's replied to this can still shoot a longbow, hundreds of years after Agincourt and the repelation of the old shooting laws
Olympic Recurve and (Welsh) Longbow. It wasn't an English invention after all, we were just ruddy good at using them, to competition standard at one point in my case.

Chippy, Builder, Sparky, Plumber, Leatherworker, Silverworker, Goldworker, Stoneworker, Writer, Artist, Photographer, Motor Vehicle Engineer, Bus Driver, Marksman, Tree Farmer, Fruit Picker, Hitchhiker, Blacksmith, Sculptors Technical Assistant, Teacher, Beer and Rum Tester, Tall Tale Spinner, the list goes on and on. My Father was responsible for most of my handtooling skills, the rest I picked up along the way

Thing I'm most proud of? All of them because they make me 'ME'.

Always happy to see lads from the "Lucky Country" find this place, I'm one of the few resident POM's but don't hold that against me, after all my ancestors gave you lot the best holiday home in the world ;)

Couldn't agree more with Bentiron

Millwright,
I'm not sure which finial you want to do from your question so I'll apply what little I know to both. For a simple point a tapering swage wouldn't cut your time down massively unless your hammer control isn't great, in which case it would, and after doing the first hundred you yourself might well be doing them in one heat ( with the quantifier of depending on the length of the taper, shorter taper = quicker ) If they're a square point as opposed to a round point then you've an even better chance.

Doing a 3/8" ball in one heat by hand with a spring swage really depends on how hard you can hit. When you say a 3/8" ball swage I'm presuming you mean the ball is 3/8" so you will end up with a neck prior to the ball and you won't need to upset the bar, but if you don't want a neck on the 3/8" then you'll have to upset enough material to fill a bigger ball swage.

Doing this much forging in one heat by hand is unlikely in my opinion. To upset and then forge a ball is a big ask from just one heat.

If you had a power hammer, a foot powered treadle hammer (sometimes called an Oliver) or even a willing striker then you'll get them done a LOT faster regardless.

Leaves are great starter pieces, you get several of the core basics in that one simple project and it's a piece that can be done in one lesson. Leaving the student with a reward to take home and inspire them.
On the matter of video demonstrations:

I cannot emphasise how important a well structured and thought out series of video's in the fundamentals of Blacksmithing would be. I cannot.
Some people can learn from books and trial and error, but most learn visually and as such a visual reference library covering those fundamentals would have tremendous value.

I jest not when I say that I've met fully grown adults who didn't know how to use a screwdriver let alone the difference between a phillips and a slot head. We as Blacksmiths probably more than any other art or trade are the 'Jacks' of all the others. We know an incredible range of hand tooling skills and we could cover them all. How to drill properly, how to saw properly, how to measure correctly, the list goes on, but it's an important list and here's why:

Just sit back for a minute and think hard about ALL the different things YOU know how to do. It becomes a suprisingly long list doesn't it? And all of that in order to be a decent Blacksmith.

Now think about a 'library' full of all that. A library that never closes and with all the writers only an email away.

Yeah I think videos are deffinately cool. I've been in a couple and I've become friendly with some folks who make a proffession of the 'telly'. I learned a lot with the director who covered Davids Wimbledon Project. This leaf demo was a good video, the pictures were shot at the right kind of distance so you could still see how it was done, but for instance full profile shots cut into it to show the swing of the hammer over its full travel would be helpful. The voiceover is key, that gives you as the 'teacher' a chance to explain the whats and why's, safety, etc etc. In the trade the stock is filmed and then edited to show whats wanted, then it's timed (as much for the slot its to fill as anything else) and from that the length of the voice over is determined. You then write several drafts until you can fill the time with as much usefull info as possible. You figure out how many words a minute you speak to the length of film/what you want to say. For a first effort this is a pretty good attempt and you've every right to be proud of it. It'll help someone pick up a hammer.

Personally I believe you'll never ever beat getting off your backside and talking to someone face to face but this site with a resource like that would be a pretty good second place though, no?

The one posted on this thread is a flat panel, most of his work is 3D but some of the ones on Davids site are listed as panels or 'limited editions'. From a photo they're virtually impossible to spot next to true 3D piece

Thanks to all for chipping in.

Nate, yes the holes in the plate are all different sizes/shapes and in different places and thats exactly what fools the eye into seeing a 3D 'mesh' image (even the shadow appears 3D too) on a totally flat surface.

I'd forgotten about spark erosion John, ( even though Moony first told me about it and it's use in die making. Doh!) I'll have to do some digging on it's cost/time vs waterject. Thanks for jogging that memory it's possibly a good avenue.

As much as the idea of building a CNC machine appeals to me (and those of you who know me understand it REALLY appeals) I doubt I could sell the idea to David, the studio isn't big enough for starters and my understanding is he wants this to be something that can be entirely done out of house appart from installation. Apparently my time is more valuable spent working on the figures he makes and all the other in house technical work, this particular project fell into my Technical Consultant/ Ideas Man drawer on the workbench.

I pride myself on finding solutions to problems and this ones a nice challenge, (for instance I'd even looked at sand casting as a possibility for this project and I've still not entirely discounted it either as I've seen foam patterns used that burn out as the metals poured) so please feel free to offer up an idea.

Thanks to all again who have thus far

Andy,
thanks for the suggestion but I cannot use actual mesh of any decription, these are FLAT panels, the mesh look is entirely down to the acid etching which burns out the holes. Looks like a mesh from a distance but ISNT a mesh. This idea needs to be replicated but on a larger scale. Acid etchings no good because it would undercut to an unnaceptable degree on thicker material so I left with finding a way to get the same look on the larger plate.
I'm only really worried about serious thickness of plate on base mounted pieces and have a perfectly useable idea for hung pieces, but I want to be able to cover all the base as it were :D

Perhaps I should clarify, I'm not tasked to replicate the 3D meshwork that David does on a much larger scale but rather the flat panels. They are about 40cm by 80cm and under a mm thick stailess steel. David wants to scale up that flat panel idea dramatically. Now if they are to be mounted to a base for the sake of safety I realise that the panel needs to be significantly thicker in order to prevent flex (I have to plan for them being outdoors for example) so I narrowed my options down to water jet cutting for the precision and depth of cuts possible. That would in fact work I'm sure but the cost/time factor makes it a harder sell by far.
I'm trying to find an alernative to waterjet that doesn't have the same cost/time problems.

Hi all, I'm hoping that some of you chaps (and chappesses) might be able to help with a project/idea that my Boss is trying to plan and price out.

He makes sculpture from wire mesh and has in the past created a series of flat panels using acid etching based on photo's of the 3D figures (you can see the type of work he does at Information). These panels are no thicker than 0.7mm (because of the problems of etching thicker panels) but David wants to see if the idea can be scaled up into LARGE pieces (several meters tall and wide). I've already done a bit of digging around and two technologies came up as possibles. Waterjet Cutting and Laser cutting, I've discounted laser cutting because of HAZ and thickness/quality of cut which leaves water jet as the leading contender. However because of the complexity of the converted cad files and number of cuts most of the companies I've spoken to won't even offer a quote on the work, the one that did quoted over