Laertius

Here is my summer toy 1971 chevy blazer - in the winter I drive an 86 chevy s10!

thanks,  i will check what the coating is--- they are the mastercraft maximum bits from canadian tire

I do not want to hijack this thread, but do have one question:  I was making a punch/drift plate out of 1/2 leaf spring steel (2005 ford ranger bottom leaf -- its what I had).  without any annealing / normalizing, I was able to lay out all the holes and drill pilot holes  with a 1/8 hss bit -- with the gold carbide coating.

So all went well, until I went to bump up the size of the holes (1/4, 5/16, 3/8 etc).  The drill just skated (drill press on lowest setting).  I then tried to anneal (heated to non magnetic and left to cool in dying out forge.  There seemed to be no appreciable difference in the hardness of the steel, and I am still stuck with a plate with a lot of 1/8th holes in it!

SO my question is:  Why can I drill a 1/8 hole no problem, but a brand new 5/16 bit, on the same drill press, using same lube and speed just skates and dulls!??  I have drilled many holes is mild steel....and never encountered this......  And yes Rich, I understand I am using unknown steel, and I have read the stickies etc.  What I am asking is why 1/8 holes drill like butter, but as soon as I try to bump it up it is impossible!

Thanks ......and please forgive any thread jacking lol!

Hey there -- I am in Thunder Bay On -- north f you, and the best suggestion I found putting out this question was to join the Norther MN metalsmiths association (google it there are contacts on their page).....if you join the club you can buy coal from them at a good price.  I cannot say how good it is as I have not tried it yet (waiting to take a trip south to Norhthouse Folk School for a course)....

Jon

Just amazing,  I am not a pro, but have worked a lot of metal and know how much work, attention to detail and planning that would take:  truly inspiring!

I do -on my 100lbs ish Attwood stourbridge anvil- 1 inch hardy and I think my pritchel is 1/2 ish.....but it is pretty auged out.  I had my son striking for me one day and made about 18'' of 1'' square out of my 1'' round stock -- lots of upsetting and squaring -- but he did learn proper striking technique and we had a good time!   So far I have made a bending fork and half a spring fuller and still have a foot of hardy shank material left......

Thanks for the advice guys, I am making up a list and plan to get it to my dad for pricing this weekend.  Not to start any squabbles, as I do appreciate any and all opinions:   BUT.....I did not want to buy stock for one project, to practice making a hundred of object 'x'.  What I wanted to know was what the most common sizes of stock are used for the typical beginner smith projects I listed.  Not that I do not agree with this philosophy of practice, and experience etc -- I do agree that making multiples is a sure fire way to gain skill........ actually it IS the only way --hence the 10k hour rule in the  psychology mastering any given  skill:  Our brains need to be 'forged' over time to acquire new skills, and the cerebellum needs many heats to get there.....  Every time I forge I try to practice some basic skills for a 1/2- to 1 hour -- and it  really helps.

That Said:The main purpose here was to start building some 'stock' that is used for many types of projects, SO

 I already have a lot of 1" round, 15/16 hex, a bunch of drops of 1/2 round........and a couple of leaf and coil springs of various sizes for tooling, and I have made most of my own tools thus far.  SO,  I figure I will go ahead and get a list similar to that shown above by Joshua M  -- with the addition of some flat 3/16 x 3/4 and 1" and 1 1/4, as stated by others.  I will keep you posted on my order list .....and maybe a year from now I come back and evaluate if it was worth it to 'stock the shop' versus buying per job.....

Thanks Again -- and keep the comments coming as I think other newbs may find this helpful in the future!

Loving the response thus far:  and yes,  I have a supplier, so that is not an issue!  Once a few more posts roll in I will let you know what I order.  Also -- I hear you, most of my practice / learning has been from a scrapped pile of 42'' long 1/2 round bar, I have flattened it, tapered it, squared it etc etc.....

So I have been forging for a few months now, built some tools made some small items with the random stock I have (see my other posts) and am now looking to place an order for some stock for the shop, my question is what to buy?

To clarify, my father works at a ship repair facility and I can order steel through him, I want to spend about 100$ for some stock to make random ornamental items:  candle holders, coat racks, hooks, shelf brackets, fire place sets-- the usual beginner stuff......

Can you suggest some sizes / types to buy?  Round or square?  Flat? etc etc (the only exception here is that I already have enough leaf and coil spring for tools -- I am only looking for suggestions in the mild steel realm)

This may seem like a stupid question, but I am not doing this for 'work', it is a hobby and as such I am not making cut-lists for commissioned jobs -- I just want to have what I need to make some basic projects.  So What stock do you use most?  What do you always have 'lots' of?

Thanks in advance,

Jon

Thanks for all the replies guys: After a 3 week wait (I am 15 hours away from southern ontario) I received my coal from home hardware:  79$ with taxes for a 75lbs bag.  I have only used it twice, but it is a whole new experience compared to charcoal, I would not say better in any way just yet, but different.  I now understand all this business about coking and clinkers lol -- It was fun to make my first cave!

Also,  IF I stay with coal, I have found that the Minnesota metalsmiths guild will be my best option, I just hope the quality is as as good as the home hardware coal (clean, even size, right on for weight).

Thanks Again

Jon

They do -- I hope that I can find a good price getting it shipped to the border -- Now top find the right supplier!  But Like I said -- I will buy one bag of the Home Hardware coal -- just to try it!

Thanks Guys - All good advice,  I think I will order a bag -- just to see what it is like to forge with.

@ EWC  I plan on building a gasser,  and am slowly gathering some pieces to do so, but I  do love to build and maintain a fire so look forward to trying the coal. When I first told my father I was doing this as a hobby -- he laughed and said it was a natural progression being the fire bug I was as a kid!

@ any Minnesotans -- I would like to know where you get your coal, because as stated I am close to Grand Portage and could have it shipped there  - It was noted above that the Northern Minnesota Smiths would be a good contact:  does anyone on here belong to that organization?  

I am in process of contacting the Duluth Metal Smiths and the blacksmith at North House Folk School , so I will  keep you all posted on my progress.

Also -- I looked on ebay and did not come up with many hits for smithing coal....  at least nothing much better than the price I can get locally.

On a side note -- I think I will finally get out to my shop this weekend as the weather is finally warming a bit! The temperatures have been around the -25 c daytime high, with -36 c overnight lows...without windchill!   

Thanks - I have tried a couple of the local heating companies with no luck thus far. The price reference you noted is good as well --gives me hope that I should find a cheaper source.

I have done some reading on charcoal v coal -- and understand the coking process (as much as one can understand from reading-vs doing) I guess what I was getting at is IF my source of coal is roughly the same price per pound (not volume) as charcoal, then is it more efficient /economical to purchase the coal? Will a pound of coal provide more heats / forging time than charcoal...on average?

From what has been posted above I am seeing some of the advantages of coal (burns longer) , but am still weighing my options and hoping for a cheaper price for the coal :)   given that I have not yet constructed a flue/ chimney for my forge - I like that charcoal is relatively clean- but again, having not played with the coal, I don't have the best comparison. 

Thanks for the tips so far -- keep em comin'

I will look into the  Norther MN club -- they are about 6 hours away from me  http://maps.google.ca/maps?client=safari&rls=en&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&q=bemidji&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x52b82c4ec41eb7c7:0xd6f67c8df095e306,Bemidji,+MN,+USA&gl=ca&sa=X&ei=Bb0BUfCCDqH5ygGMmoDYDA&ved=0CJcBELYD  

Hello There,

Throwing this out there for opinions / advice.

I am currently forging with charcoal, it costs me ~15$ for a 17lbs bag of royal oak at Canadian Tire.  Which I can stretch for 10 hours of forge time (my average hobby session is about 4 hours)

I have contacted my local home hardware who can get 'Virginia' Blacksmith coal in 70lbs bags for 69.99$

Now this leads me to believe doing the rough math that I can get the charcoal cheaper pound for pound......and from what I have read around here -- pound for pound I am getting the ~ the same BTU's from coal or charcoal.

What do you guys think -- minus the fleas, I enjoy the charcoal for how clean it is, I have learned how to mange it well and can achieve welding heats no problem -- but then again I have not forged with coal so do not know any better?

So I have 3 questions:  

1)  Does anyone in the Thunder Bay Ontario area have a better/cheaper source of Coal?

2)  Since I live very close to the american border (Minnesota) I could have coal shipped to 

Grand Portage, MN 55605 border store -- Does anyone know a good midwest supplier that would be cheaper than the above price?

3) Is coal 'that much' better pound for pound for me to spend the extra and use that?

Thanks for your comments,  I cannot say enough good things about this site, its members and the continued patience of its more senior members for the 'little' questions from people like me!

Thanks again for the comments -- have not made it out to my shop since I posted as it is is -35 c WITHOUT the wind chill up here......  I usually park the forge outside the garage mandoor  and leave it open -- it has been just too cold!  Its funny.....I have ONLY forged in the cold since starting in this 'hobby/obsession'..... I am not sure if I look forward to forging in warmer weather?  

One thing I have learned about forging in the winter is to pre-heat the anvil and hand tools--- I have a propane blower heater in my 30/20' shop and before forging, while getting everything together I point it directly at the anvil about 18'' away and wait till the anvil is 'warm' to the touch.....seems to help so that I do not need as many heats to complete an operation ...... a -20 anvil will suck the heat of 1'' yellow steel pretty darn fast!!!!

Looks fun -- Keep up the good work!

I second frosty's remarks -- I clamped it down to a table and used a recip saw, cutting from the bottom on an angle-- took about an hour to cut through, the face or rail side was much harder but cutting from the back helped a lot!

I have one as well -- good rebound and suits my needs so far: http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/29944-tale-of-2-anvils/ 

not a power tool used on either the hamchet or letter opener

Good Idea on the leaf keyring -- or something school friendly!  The rules are very tight these days.  Being the age that I am,  I have watched, and lived through most of the school changes /cultural changes -- One minute I was in grade 6 and we could fight to settle differences with no more than a slight trip to the principal's office -- then next year it was automatic suspensions for both students no matter the circumstance!   Enough ranting......

Thanks For the continued encouragement,  I spent a few hours on the grinder/polishers with some of my tools after seeing Sam Salvati's thread on Anvil tools -- very nice indeed!

Anyways -- I have attached completed hamchet and letteropener for fun!  (both tools btw)

Thanks Frosty and Pug -- I appreciate the comments:  had opportunity to use my newly forged hardy cut off  for some small 3/8 stock yesterday, works great, though I may have made it a bit thin close to the cutting edge: Edge dressing and blade geometry's are still a skill to work on I guess.  I am now making hardy bending fork.  My 13 y/0 son came out and was striking for me (squaring off some round stock for the bending fork hardy mount) for the first time yesterday = was great, and since we are both beginners it is a learning process on both ends.  He is also working on a knife -- mostly stock removal from an old vixen file - he loves it!

Here is a pic of my tools that I have made in my couple of months of forging From Left to right: 10mm punch from old ball pein, hardy cut off (shoulder came from original piece, but upset the shank to give a good fit in the hole), chisel from 6'' piece of 5/8 round, unfinished 'Hamchet' the name comes from My GF (all rights reserved lol) -- I am making a bunch of these Hamchets for practice as I bought a bucket of carpenters hammers for 20$,  next is a leaf letter opener unfinished, then a punch / drift from 5/8 round (this was my first completed project), then in the next pic you can kind of see my flat jaw tongs made from 1/2 mild steel.  The tongs are serviceable, but I did not make the one rivet head thick enough so they need to be re-riveted!    Thanks again for this site with all its helpful comments, pictures and excellent craftsman!

Take Care,

Jon

NEWBIE question:  What is the use/purpose of the tiil that is situated in the hardy hole of the first 2 photos? 

Also -- Very nice tooling, by freehand do you no power tools?  Wither way, very nice,  my forging is coming along, but finnish work is a whole other skill to be appreciated and learned

Jon

I second the candy colour spray..... a local custom auto paint shop could make a few spray cans for you of any colour you like...... with good prep it would hold up to light use.