Timothy Miller

I do not know if I would use the term *most*.  As the vices were made from wrought iron and then mild steel any hardened jaws should be visible as a forge welded in face to the jaw.  Of the 20 or 30 I have owned over the years I can remember only 2 with such jaw faces.

I have owned about 20 I can never remember one with wrought iron jaws or soft steel jaws.  I did a quick inventory around the shop.  I did a visual inspection and a file test on all of my vices

7" Fisher chain vise cast iron body with cast in steel jaws

Two unknown American style forged wrought iron 6" leg vices both vices weld lines visible at the jaw and file test as hard.

4" Peter Wright forged wrought iron vise seem visible on underside of jaw jaw file tests as hard.

5" Peter Wright forged wrought iron vise seem visible on underside of jaw jaw file tests as hard.

4" 18th century style with tenon mounting plate forged wrought iron vise seem visible on underside of jaw jaw file tests as hard.

3 forged clamp on table vices 3" Hiller and sons? 2.5 H.R. Boker and unmarked 2" all file test as hard and show a line at the jaw were steel was welded to the wrought iron body

5" Foster English forged wrought iron body with steel jaws.  This vice has one of steel jaws come off when I was straightening out the the jaw I re-welded it to the vice body and rehardned the steel jaw after cutting in new teeth into the jaw.

4-1/2" Colombian drop forged file tests as hard steel has clear weld line at underside of the jaw.  

Not one of my vices has soft jaws I could spark test them and post a video on line if you don't believe me. 

I disagree with frosty.  Most Leg vices have hardened steel jaws.  Though the jaws often get softened by exposure to hot iron over the years.  I have built up jaws with weld before without any problems.  As manufactured most Leg vice jaws are supposed  crisp square with serrations on the faces of the jaws.  It would not have been out of the skill set of your run of the mill blacksmith to reshape and reharden the jaws of a vice to get it back into good working order.  I my self have done it on an old worn wrought iron vice.  I use copper vice jaw caps to protect fine work for getting messed up by the vice jaws.

A boulder as an anvil would be considered primitive, chunks of discarded surplus steel I would consider post industrial blacksmithing.  

How about a cleft weld,  although I don't know how you will blend things together.

I think further experimentation is required.

As far as durability of a steel fire pot goes, I made mine from 3/8" plate and it has now been in service for 9 years with no sign of degradation. I'm thinking I'll never need to make another one.

How many hours?  Do you ever forge larger stock say bigger than 1-1/4"?  Forge weld often? 

I spoke to a guy who was involved in the anchor project this morning he is a guy who does a lot of welding including gun barrels.  It was a mild steel to mild steel jump weld.  When I mentioned what you were doing his immediate reply was to make the stake out of mild steel with just the top tool steel. 

This is what I did but the welds gave loose when I went back to clean up the shape.  The stake is basically a piece of 1" square mild jump welded to a piece of W1 for the top.  I have done laminated tops before in wrought iron with a tenon.  I wanted to keep it simple to see if it would be a good alternative to TIG welding.

So I have been told that jump welding mild steel is near impossible by people who really know their stuff.  I made it even harder on myself by tiring to jump weld a mild steel shank on a W1 stake top.  I have done this in wrought iron in the past and it works just fine.  I got the weld to take and twice it let go wile I did some reshaping at a lower of the heat.  I used borax with wrought iron chips as flux.  Let me reiterate I got it to weld twice on the first try but the weld had no strength.   It just let go after when went to forge the rest of the tool.  I don't have to do the job this way I just really want to. 

Looks like a good clean, robust looking hammer.

Did you tell him it was your birthday?

The way I read what Timothy said was, instead of flipping 90 degrees left to right, you flip 90 degrees and hit all four sides.

I don't know about that.  The main thin to keep in mind is work it hot often times gas forges fall short in the heat department.  If it starts to crack stop and go back into the fire and weld the crack back together at the beginning of your heat.  Also wide flat bars don't like to be forged on edge heavily they can cup and split.  Once you get the feel for it you will really like wrought iron.  I love the way wrought iron looks it has a more organic texture and responds better to hand forging.  

Steel fire pots do not last as long as cast iron fire pots in my experience.  Though they do work, the thicker the better.   Cast iron handles the heat better by not oxidizing as quickly as steel.

Don't you mean they got that good because they had no choice? Oh wait, you DID say that didn't you? <wink>

 

Frosty The Lucky.

I guess what I mean is forge welding and splitting is kind of a casual thing with wrought iron.   Much the way we just weld on things with ease with a mig welder one can do the same with wrought iron.  But yes they had no other options.  But plenty of modern metal workers work like they have no other options as well. 

Wrought iron can vary from bar to bar or even in the same bar.  It can be a frustrating material but also very rewarding.  I often look at old work and wonder how they did that, often the case is that they were able to do that way because they had wrought iron to work with. 

If I remember correctly mine were integral to the handle.  I would assume that the balls were upset forged in some sort of press.  If you have the machine with the dies this is the fastest way.  

I have some of this same iron it is good quality stuff.  I use it for welding on collars and fussy work where using wrought iron will save you time. 

I have to admit, when I first came into possession of this 1045 plate I was concerned about how a welded horn and upsetting block would work. I was afraid of the welds cracking, or failing. I considered hard facing. The problem is the cost. Also, I am not sure which will give the best rebound, hard facing, or full heat treating.

 

I am curious why some believe that 1045 doesn't like welding. With no Chromium, medium carbon, and between 60 and 90 points of Manganese, I thought it would be safe. Historically, isn't 1045 one of the traditional steels used as a face plate for forge welding a face plate to an anvil?

1045 was not around when they forge welded faces on anvils.  If memory serves they used mostly blister steel and later cast steel with the carbon content being higher than .40%  Blister steel in my experience when properly hardened is very hard stuff.  The numbering system for steel is a 20th century invention. Forge welded faces on anvils died out in the early 1900's for the most part. Nice build by the way :)

That really looks like an oil field anvil for sharping drills.  Bridge anvils are different form oil field anvils.  

I have used logs my whole life I also have a tripod steel stand.  I prefer logs they just feel better to me.

I would love to see some progression photos of the forging. 

Fare enough, but I needed a term that conveyed the general shape I was referring to.

 

Richard

They are traditionally called double arch anvils. 

Hornless anvils are not necessarily colonial they were available from Hay Buddden new in the 1920's.  A I own a couple of anvils that could be classified as colonial biased on shape and materials used.  To really use that term the anvil would have to be made from wrought iron and have a blister steel face.  Its not just a shape its the materials used to make it.  There is a difference in how a block of modern alloy tool steel feels verse a steel faced wrought iron anvil under the hammer. 

doesn't seem likely. is a knifemaker responsible for future cuts? maybe I am misunderstanding your comment. 

 

in any case 'blacksmithing' seems to attract a lot of boogityboogity.

Knives by their nature are very necessary yet can be dangerous things, most people understand this and use them safely accidental stabbings are few and far between.  I am bound by building code elements may not be sharper than a certain radii spiked railings, gates and grills are not allowed in most cases even in historic situations. Trust me I have tried.  

your pointing out oppressive regimes who more than likely demanded those products, both gas, and nails in ancient times, under threat of death not only for the worker but for the workers family. Can you still blame them for making said product? 

 

I'm sorry but personal accountability only comes into play when free will is allowable. the same reason why some people are convicted of war crimes and some people were just following orders. a drunk driver hits a pedestrian, you don't blame the car maker. Someone get's fat, you don't blame the person who made the fork and spoon. 

 

Sorry to derail the thread, but you need to take into account all the variables before you place blame. and I'm sorry. I refuse to call a craftsman a criminal for building a product that could be used for any number of purposes, whether it be a nail, or a knife, or an axe of a gun. after it has been made, it is the user who is responsible. not the maker. and you cannot place blame on innocent people for the actions of criminals.

If I make a gate with sharp points on it and someone gets hurt on it I will be liable.  This is a fact it is the law.  People have choices about what they want to put out into the world.  I got offered a large military contract once, one of the reasons I did not take it was I did not want make things that could end a life. 

I don't go much for the supernatural but I have found many hours of contentment at the forge. 

NOOOOO! forging hammers and top tools is my favourite task! (when I have a striker)

I mean that forge welding the claw together on a carpenters hammer will seem like a silly thing to do once you have the skill to forge proper a hammer from scratch.