SReynolds

I havn't tried it on hot steel set upon the anvil yet.................... I don't have an anvil at the house, it is at the shop. I too am thinking about that "rebound" which lifts the hammer up.

It works great for pounding on cold steel around the shop, chisels etc. I will give it a try soon when I drive over to the historical society. I work for six hrs a day when I'm there, unless we have an event, then it is more like nine.

I generally use the 2 and 2.5 cross pien with wood handle for the small stuff I forge.

Hey, folks!

I have a new hammer and I wanted to know if anyone out there has used this/uses this type.

It is a Dead Blow Ball Pien Composite Shank Microcellular/Multi Positional Hand Grip w/Free Flowing Steel Canister. They are available in various weights. I like the 2.5 lbs, but what whatever floats your boat there........and I'm not ready to swing a 3 or 4 lbs of hammer to forge decorative hooks/nails/horse shoes etc.so that isn't the issue here........

I use the old school wood handles in all my (other) smithing hammers, but this is real sweet. I know you don't have to the the cross-pien style hammer to forge with, and that really isn't in question. I have books that portray the use of a ball pien for forgework. If it wasn't working, it wouldn't be published as such.

My point is the dead-blow/shot-filled hammers. Anyone use them? I can't believe how comfortable it is. I hope I'm not kicked off the website for such an act/suggestion..........


-Scott

My catalog from 1920 lists that as the Champion Agricultural Crank Forge Model no. 152

18inches by 4inches deep I think the fan said 10 inches, but I have come to find that when the book said 10 inches that is the size of the fan housing NOT the fan. The fan would be about two or so inches smaller.

I'd post up a picture but I'm not versed in copying a picture from the PDF file to the computer.It wants to copy the entire 300+ pages!!!!!

Trust me, it looks exactly like yours,, so I really don't need to................

If nobody has mentioned this, it would appear that your coal (if that is what it is) is about 10 times too big. You'd be happier with very small pieces or even sreenings-sand like size.

I guess I'm too inexpierienced to understand what the video was demonstarting...............

What was done exactly with the guide, the hot steel bar held in that guide and hammering it onto a touch mark. That wouldn't MAKE a touch mark, would it? It would only serve to smash/distort the one shown at the start.......

Something is missing here...............

Good information there, Phil.

What about the blacksmith post vise? Not quite sure why one would debate that, but I'd have to guess they have been 'round since 1800 or so.

Any law against that in a recreation of a Civil War era blacksmith shop?

Exactly.........

I work for the historical society and what I do there is under close observation and scrutiny by visitors. I get asked questions; "Would a blacksmith have used a vise, a file and a hack-saw?

We are Civil War era, or so abouts. There, it must appear as such as best as is practical.

I do tell folks that I will make something for them at home where I can weld the project and use pneumatic tools. Then they don't have a problem with it, generally speaking.

My biggest personal obstacle is folks telling me that use of a hack-saw, electric welding and drilling holes with a steel bit is not blacksmithing, rather metal fabrication/metal working. I used to get upest and worried that I was a fraud, during the first two years or so. Now I talk and act like a politician and smile, act like I care and wish them the best.

I don't clay, rather I build a new grate from 1/4" mild steel. Currently working on my second rivet forge. Incedently, I recently picked up a book with 600+ (Things???) you can construct in a 401 rivet forge. I won't live long enough to try them all!!! Much more than a simple rivet!! Wish I could recall the name of book. "The Complete Modern Blacksmith" I belive it is.......

I use one on the items I make at the historical society and sell at the historical society. It was their idea. I had one made by a comercial stamp/die maker near here (in Northern Ohio)

It simply consists of letters and is 1/4" tall and slightly wider. It simply says; ZOAR in block letters. Cost about 70.00 I think it was???

.....yeah, sorry. I didn't mean any disrespect to them who paint their Champions black.

For what it's worth, I have also seen the 400 blower in what could only be assumed to be original red...

Hi folks,

Wanted to share with all my next forge rebuild. This is a Champion model 145-18 inch forge with the Eureka N0.140 blower

I do not know the years these were made. I'd have to guess and say 1930's and 1940's vintage. These are not listed in the popular 1920 Champion Catalog.

I also wanted to report that these were originally painted red as can be seen from the remaining paint.

Yeah, my other thought was to clamp in place with the anvil hold fast. Place over the hardy hole and clamp in place. But, then I have to unclamp it if the object forged sticks a bit. A long handle makes more sense and that is what I have always seen; a header with a long handle.

If the header works like it has thus far, the objects literally bounce up after the head is forged. I suppose I could use my pliers to pull it from a header held in place atop anvil. But, I like dipping the entire header and nail/pin etc. into slack tub to cool it and pull it out with my fingers. Done it for years like that and is what I'm used to.

Hinge pins are riveted over in situ? :unsure:

What is that? I an only guessing here, but I plan to make a pin with one head, slip it through the two (hinge halves) and then hot forge or cold forge a little bit of head on the bottom, if it is even needed.

No? Yes? :mellow: I havn't made any yet, so I have yet to try that.

Yeah. After I typed that out, I thought, no, It won't get hot enough to anneal if I simply pre-heat the spring.....

Yes, a handle to the side of the spring steel header. That's it.

By the way, I can drill through this spring steel. I guess it isn't quite as hard as I thought. It can't be really. It has to flex under the load!!
Thanks a ton.I will test weld another piece and whack it a few times atop the vise to see how it holds.

Yea......electric/mig. So I have to basically anneal the spring steel, weld it, then heat treat it to harden it, or leave it alone?

I love the way spring steel works for a header. The pins or nails literally bounce up out when you get the head forged. W/mild steel headers, they wedge down in tight and you have to litertally knock them out of siad header tool. I ant to keep these headers hard, just like the store bought headers with a mild steel handle.

Thanks guys, for any help.

Scott

I welded a piece of low/mild carbon steel to a section of spring steel, as in makeing a nail header with a handle..........

The weld broke clean from the spring steel. The weld crystalized the spring steel and broke from it. How is that commercially made/store bought nail headers have a mild steel handle welded to the hig carbon header??????????????

They don't break free. They bend, not break.

Any ideas as what to do for a solid weld?

At present, I'm working on the nail header style. It works ok. Made one from 1/2 thick spring steel. I have to upset the stock first. However, the pin/rivet *IS* bent. I don't know what bends it, likely that bit of slop between the hole in header and the O.D. of the steel stock. I don't know........Not badly, but enough to see a very slight bend if you take time to look at it. Would not work properly if one was to use it as a hinge pin, but OK for a rivet. (well......not is a set of tongs)

Perhaps the block pinched in the vise would be better to forge a hinge pin. THAT will have to be straight to operate a hinge.......................any sorta bend in a two inch long (hinge) pin would NOT work.

Anybody seen these??? The first video results in a slightly bent pin/rivet. I guess that is ok??? MIne do bend so maybe i'm on the right track...to upset the stock first, set in a header, and upset the head....................?????

The second video is another method with two halves, held in the vise and clamping the stock to upset head.

I suppose I'll make both. Not sure if the two halves need to be carbon steel or not................????

Thanks folks for all the information. I have been studying this!!!

Bent rivet/pin formed by a header;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MecQZp0Gz9s


Two halves, clamping rivet with a vise;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDRjYu4BZLE

If you'd have a picture, I could I.D that. I have a Champion Catalog/with tons of pictures and descriptions.

I know many folks don't care for the rivet(small) /portable forges as they are limited in their use. However, there is a blacksmithing book out there that lists 673 projects aimed at the use of a small rivet style forge (Champion 400 blower mounted on the 401 forge). I belive it is called the Complete Modern Blacksmith. I'd have to look at the cover again as I don't study the front cover, just what is printed within.

I have two of them and they are large enough/hot enough to totally destroy 3/4 bar stock. Ask me how I know........

Yea, I have been there. And unless they are camoflaged somewhere, they don't have pin headers, unless I'm looking for the wrong item. I'm simply guessing it would be similar to a nail header, but then, perhaps not.

I had seen one guy (this site?) make a pin header by drilling a hole through a block of billet steel and cutting that in half. It is clamped in the vise jaws and the pin dropped inside that, the head forged, and the block removed from vise, the fresh pin dropped out by opening the two halves.

Sound familiar?

Hi folks,

Can anybody point me to a tool (header?) I can easily make or purchase to hold round stock? I would like to begin fordging round pins from round stock in 1/4" 5/16 and/or 3/8" for the purpose of hinge pins and or hand made bolts.

I have made a nail header (with much assistance) from 1/2 thick stock but is is mild steel and the nails get hung in that as it wears rapidly and requires constant dressing. Commercially made nail headers from high carbon don't seem to wear at all, thus I'd rather buy one of quality carbon steel, rather than make one that wears out rapidly...........

I don't have much in the way of carbon steel other than a bit of spring steel.

Thanks, Scott

This one is quite large and continues to provide an air flow long after I stop. However, it is going to wear me down. I now have tennis elbow. From what I do not know, but the bellows operation among holding tongs tight to my work piece, has aged me in only two short years time.

Yea, I went to the doctor. It is tennis elbow. It don't hurt to pull down on the bellows, but it gets old. I have asked about installing my large Buffalo Blower. That didn't go over well as the society has $$$$$$$ in the bellows.

Yep, that helps me out! Makes sense to me. Both work really well. I have, in my possession, an old Champinion forge and it has no grate. (The tuyere I suppose??) Anyway, You can look right down into that 2- 3/4" pipe and that isn't going to work. I'm designing a new gate for the fire to lay upon. I was wondering how many holes it should have as I don't have the original as an idea like I did with the other Champion rivet forge.

By the way, I had to discover the weight atop the bellows myself. I had nobody to coach me on this. I did have an exxperienced smith in the shop and his take on that was very little weight is desired, and he removed it. I then set the weights back on as it gives more of an air blast. With out that weight, it more/less settles down and blows very little air when you let go of the pole.

I hope the pictures tell a story here.

The small (rivet) forge has the factory number of tuyere holes; 19- 13/32 inch holes!! That is almost 7/16 inch dia holes and for a small forge like this. That is how its made. Seems like quite a lot of air holes for a small (8") fan!!

The masonry forge with gigantic bellows.........5- 3/8 inch holes. That is it. Works perfectly too I might add. Use it all the time. Plenty of air flow and when you need it too.

Question, what gives with these air holes? The bellows, in my opinion, would need the 19-13/32 in holes and the rivet forge would only require 5- 3/8 in holes.

RIGHT???

Who thunk this stuff up??

Around these parts you can score a nice Champion forge w/proper blower for a hundred and half. The e-bay prices folks are subject to will factor in the fact that bidders get adrenalin pumping throught the veins along w/the pride factor; nobody will beat me! Then the fact that you'll have college kids bidding up antiques and cars etc. just for fun.

Thus, e-bay price have nothing to do with the actual real world value of an item. Get a used forge at a blacksmith shop and you'll pay real world cost. Craigs list also has had pretty believeable prices, but you have to act fast; first come/first sold.