nonjic

I promised paul (?) from the blacksmiths asscon. of Vic the manual to fix the Massey 1 cwt slides in the 'barn' - ill get onto it tomorrow! - I enjoy receiving my copy of the 'Drift' every now and then here in the UK . (its getting quite international this smithing lark!)

Learning from those that do is so much quicker than working it out yourself (and your list of excuses for burning the steel will get longer & better with experience :)

if im thinking about the same thing as you ..... you wont get the 'return of energy' that you get from a fly press, its essentially a vertical rack and pinion, ive got one gathering dust somewhere, and thats all it does (except broaching the occasional keyway)

On a flypress you can 'bump' which allows you to draw-out / strike multiple blows without to much (excessive) input on the handle, they give you a little bit of your input back for 'free' on the ram return 'up' stroke.

Rains, Ive spent a fair bit of time playing with venturi burners, and eventually came up with this one, however, its all custom made, and the effort doing it was not really worthwhile.

its smoking hot, but my forge seems to have been running a bit cooler last couple of times ive welded in it. My personal conclusion (your mileage will vary) is that they are a bit fussy compared to blown burners. (especially on the effort : reward bargain!)

if you look in the photo gallery at forgemagic.com ( under jymm hoffmans pics ) he has a very good, simple, no nonsese looking design for a blown burner. I think ones next on my list of to do's.

If the noise of the blower bugs you theres no rule that says it has to be in the same building as you!

As I understand the vertical forges don't get hotter, the principle is they don't have a floor that ends up eaten by flux, or a pool of borax mush like mine.

I don't think the rex / other burners you can buy are that expensive really, I just couldn't wait for one to arrive from the states so made one myself. If you weigh up how much gas you might save from a properly balanced burner it might be worthwhile splashing the cash??

regarding the 'validity' of the post, and finding information; - I think its a very valid question to ask, as has been mentioned when you get 50,000+ hits it can often be difficult to assimilate the information to a point you can use - some 'hands on pointers' from personal experience can be very useful indeed.

Robert, you could always come over to the dark side & use a power hammer or press?? (or learn to forge left handed....

If I finish it Ill post some proper photos (not taken on my phone!) , ive not ground it proper yet as im waiting on a couple of dvd's on techneque to arrive - Ive busied myself tooling up a press for 'mascus work today (15 t fast acting hydraulic), with a tool carousel - then ive got a 'KMG' to copy for my next project. im getting a bad addiction!

I understand its bad form to mention other forums, in a forum, but cant see the harm...

if youve not checked it out already have a looksy at britishblades.com some very talented & friendly folks there, and some amazing knives and damascus being made! (its quite international, but based in the uk, if that makes sense!)

Robert, Very Nice clean looking damascus.

This is my second attempt, the 1st had a delamination.

Its a 10" o/a bowie 01 & mild. ( 7 layers, 2 folds, gentle twist, and another fold for good measure)

Im really looking forward to getting some 15n20 - the contrast is amazing in the blade, the one posted above has only had 1/2 hour in vinegar (its only very rough ground and still awaiting H.T at the mo.)

'mascus seems to be a bit addictive though....

yes, buy 5 of them incase you wear them out. Do you not listen to the replies folks give you??? -

I, for one, M.Brothers, will no longer read any of your threads, since it is apparent that you listen to no advice you are given, and are at best living in a dream world about your abilities, finances & skills, at worst you are trolling (posting for no reason other than to post, hence you which new anvil for under $2000/ buck thread etc etc etc)

I am not trying to 'flame' here folks, and would ask for no comments / replies to this post, but please have a look at M.brothers post / threads started section and tell me if you think he is serious??? - it seams a shame that your valuable time is being taken up answering trivial / nonsensical & outright fanciful questions.

I like this forum, and I know the depth of peoples knowledge that they are willing to share, and I possibly can offer some very valuable information back in time, but threads like this??? p l e a s e.

though many 'purists' may not agree,..... the ability to weld (mig / gas / stick etc) will help you no end with making functional projects, and a quick fix to helping you make the tools etc you will need for blacksmithing.

If you can find a college / evening school / etc course in basic welding, safety etc it will stand you in very good stead - they may also teach you the how to use burning gear (oxy acet / oxy propane) which is immensly useful for cutting / heating odd shaped pieces for bending and so on.

Forge looking good there, if this is your 1st gasser Ive got a couple of pointers from my first, if youve made a few you may think different.....

Im an engineer, and like neat, clean engineering solutions to things, my main frustration building the thing (there are details in ' show me your gas forge, and the mods are in my 'damascus materials & info thread) is how imprecise the forge body is,

no matter how hard I tried it never came out 'neat', plunger moveable walls sounds good on paper, but when that suckers upto 1300 / 1400 degs it all goes out the window, and you find yourself prodding firebricks with a pair of tongs to reduce the volume.
Lining, with a bit of coating / sag / etc youll be lucky to get + / - 1/4" !

you might be aswell to spend a bit of time reading up on burner entry angles and 'gas swirl' - On advice (from Mike Blue, a well respected knife maker who knows a bit about gassers) I put my burner at 3'oclock poistion - I thought this would just hot spot the wall but it really works.

You could consider rotating your entire forge 90 degrees? - Ive read up a lot about forges (including Absorbing Micheal Porters entire book!) and it still seems to be a slightly 'dark art' to get all the variables right, anyhow, this is mine, goes superhot at low gas pressure through .040" mig tip


your mileage may vary !

Mr Wooldridge, Im glad your ok,

I understand the point of your post, its not so much dont stick your hand under a power hammer (or large weight of any kind) - its familiarity breeds contempt?

I know a few people with missing digits, and a guy with a missing hand (or a hand, depending if the barrel is half full or half empty !) -

the guy with the hand lost it whilst doing a saftey inspection on a trimming press, there were 2 control stations, one on either side of the machine and his workmate stroked the press due to a missunderstanding - ( on the big machines theres nothing left to sew back on ) -

my first ever knife, aswell as my first 'damascus'

pleased as punch with it (its only rough ground and very lightly etched out of curiosity in this pic) ht & proper grind to follow. Its a piece of oddball ground flat stock & pallet strap. started as 9, finished 72 layers.

I wonder if this site might benefit from a 'Newbies' section - a few other forums (non B.S) have them, along the lines of introduce yourself, 'read this first before posting', and a 10 or 20 point F.A.Q's ?

I find the youtube videos quite beneficial to learing, perhaps an easy to find links page to beginners stuff (like the short clips Ian did?)

John (desperatly seeking borax in his lunch half hour tomorrow) N

A quick update on this one, I got the forge fully modded and its now 'cant look at it / stand near it levels of HOT,

welded up a 10 layer billet (my first, ahhhhhh) tonight and after a quick grind down the edge it looks to have stuck pretty good (dont want to temp fate to much) - drawn it out to 2 times lenght, then ran out of flux so cant fold it ..... dooohhh. will try and get some borax tomorrow and I recon 2 folds, tap it round, a few twists, tap it square and then tap it knife shape - jobs a good un!

then a quick learn on HT / grind and handleing skills and Ill have made a knife !

need to buy some brazing goggles as my eyes are hurting a bit from looking at it, (doesnt help I flashed myself with the stick either)

here it is...... lit for about 10 mins on lowish gas pressure, im very happy with it so far, fitted a stock rack aswell.


.... pls note I realise the rubber hose onto the burner is a big no no and I would not recomend it to anyone!!!! - the burner is ice cold when running , and I disconned the hose when I switch off, before the heat transfers down the burner, It will be 'hard piped' now I know it works .......

welcome to the site!

the forge idea looks good, youll apreciate an electric blower on it though

theres a whole world of hot above 'red' but its a good start (im still looking for proper hot, see the damascus mateial thread I started, im still looking for hot HOT)

try having a read through some of the blueprints, and hitting a bit of hot metal, youll soon get addicted to it !

cheers Ian, the forge is only a toy, but I wanna pattern weld! - I think you can get away with a flare cast / molded into the lining, but its not as efficient.

I will probably be 'overgunned' for the size of the forge with this single burner, I will be into a host of backpressure / exhaust problems as it is

(the machine shop lads would be taking the mic coz ive only worked to .002 tollerances - I was in a rush ! - us accountants can have a do at this machine larky if we put our minds to it !

I would love to contribute but ive got to many irons in the fire as it is.......

a couple of snaps of the new burner, with a bit of help from Mr Porters book, and a few 'John' Mods this is the little fella nearly finished. - I reamed the burner tube to 1 1/16" to help the gas flow. The whole thing (except the mig tip) is help together with 'tap together' fits, and slide clearances where needed. I will fire a couple of grub screws into gas accelerator, and the flare before it goes into the forge, just to be sure.

Photo 1
choke fully open

Photo 2
The s.s. flared choke closed

Photo 3
the business end, 1:12 taper turned s.s. flare


and....... finally.......


Photo 4
The first fire - sounds like an F16 on afterburner. This is it at about 1/2 gas pressure (no pressure guage on the regulator)- the flame goes much bigger and stays stable, it seems to be fully tuneable aswell - im happy with it so far


I think Im not far of the perfect 28:1 burn ratio with this one, the forge is ripped to bits being modified to take the burner (the flares deliberatly chunky) - Fingers crossed it burns as good in the forge as in fresh air!!!

Just keep out of the way of the sparks! caught fire myself the other day, bought some 'polycotton' instead of cotton boiler suits, add a decent soak of oil and paint and it caught pretty good, slapped out ok but still a bit of a wake up call !

It looks good !, though someone probably knocked the end of that on purpose after it got 'em in the soft bits!

I fully agree, do what the heck you want with them to make them usefull for us., they will outlive us, and gives the next playstation generation something to wonder about,

Im gonna commit the cardinal sin on mine and throw it on the miller and whip .040" off the face, its not that bad, but I want it flat, so what? - its mine!!!!! - its about 300lb of london pattern cast steel with a pretty good face - it might be softer after, it might not, whats it to do with anyone else ? :)

try again....

Thanks for all the pointer so far guys,

I post over on BB every now and again so suprised I missed the steel comparison charts.

Rich, dont get me wrong, I have hit a bit of metal in the past, just never tried damascus. I work in the industrial forging industry and deal with some of the most talented blacksmiths in the UK on an almost daily basis - (perhaps newby is a relative term

The billet, should it ever be successful ( I will let you know !) will end up pointy. Im not a 'I wanna make a sword' type, but want a 'MeMade' damascus that I can take pride in grinding, handleing & sheathing as a belated wedding gift for my best mate.

The new burner is coming on well - tonight I have been making the flare (for a 1" burner) from a piece of 4" dia s.s. - the only bit to hand, think it will be the most expensive venturi made....

My one and only failed attempt at stacked billet welding was a big file and 1/4" thick m.s (7 layers start), the m.s moved alot faster than the file which I think ripped the welds apart, funny you should mention nicholson Files Mr Powers, Thats my surname - must be fate.

I will keep you posted on the success (or scrap pile additions) -

Im starting to have a do at a bit of pattern welding, with very limited success so far! - still a newby so its not worrying me (yet!)

Lack of heat from my little gas forge is one of the main problems (pics in the 'show me you gas forge thread), but im digesting Micheal Porters book at the moment, and a new tube burner is 'in the lathe' now, so I should be cooking properly by the weekend,

I am reading plenty online about the different steels and their compatability / contrast when 'mixed', the confusing thing for me is all of the different international nomicultures for steels, (as a man used solely to the 'EN' system!) - can anyone reccomend an online easy to use comparison guide?

can you reccomend me your favourite simple 'mixes' (pics would be good!)
Ive got a piece of ground flat stock and some steel pallet banding lined up for the next attempt / conversion to scrap pile !

Im not lacking hammer 'firepower' and am trying to run before I can walk, but I like the challenge,

Thanks for any pointers!

Yeeeaaahh, ok, right - perhaps you should stick a new digi camera lead on the christmas list??

you should have a do at pattern welding a knife or somthing for your next project, (it sure sounds like you learn faster than the rest of us !) welded bike chain looks real nice (with the decarb layers) - just get it pleanty hot, flux a bit and tap it untill the weld takes, then forge to blade shape. After a grind and etch it makes a real pretty metal.

so m.b you managed to buy an anvil then??, last I heard you were $ 60 bucks short at a sale to get just one, then looking for a couple for a grand, but hadnt had much luck deciding which manufacturer to go for...

hows the iron smelt going? -

youll be doing real good to make those 5 sets of fireplace tools before christmas! - alot of skilled work in making them, you must be a real quick learner - I must have missed the post where you eventually managed to buy an anvil, sorry.

saw an artical on how to make a TROLL real easy without to much experience, will post it when I get a chance. I look forward to seeing some pics of all these projects.

The hammer went for

Jymm, I think Mr Hofi has got a place in ....errhm the country that your trade deficit is already to big with errhm... to make his anvils, the HOFI anvil I looked at was real clean and nice looking casting, now if you can get 2 dozen made and shipped for the price of a half dozen from someone who doesnt want to know???'

I want to get a couple of 'Massey' Branded big anvils cast but the problems I have getting good steel castings & H.T done in the UK put me off (the hastle rather than the cost), youve done the hard work already, and seem to have the demand so it might be worth a punt??

Notes to above post, the forge body is sitting on a lump of ceramic board, and the little arch legs (welded on) are made from the 'base ring' that was welded to the gas cylinder for the genuine 'scrap yard' recycled look / theme !