irnsrgn

blacksmithteck, In reality, you don't need a perfect face on an anvil to do quality work. The quality in work comes from your skill in using what tools you have at hand, not in how pretty your tools are. A good smith can use almost any thing for an anvil no matter how poor a shape the tools are in. the same as a good machinist can take a well used or sometimes abused machine tool and still do quality work.

And if you are still intent on possibly admistering 200 years of wear to your anvil by flattening the face, have the machinist put the anvil face down on the blanchard and square the bottom with the top first.

modifing the quote at the bottom of your post;

What is left when the hard face is lost?

For those interested in anvils and don't have access to the book "Anvils in America." Go here for some interesting information.


http://home.flash.net/~dwwilson/ntba/anvnm.html

Thank You, Mr. Wilson

Pam,at least lodging, meals, $.30 a mile both ways, $100 a day plus any thing you sell is yours, for a place to start. Do simple straight forward things to keep their attention span, and have a display of your work handy along with cards and of course a pad to take down commisions on. Remember to get at least half up front on commissions, and give yourself more than enough time for delivery date. Start High and let them fenangle you down a bit, it makes them feel good and like they got a bargain.

Strine its basically 4 sharp fingers with sharp points that will dig into most smooth surfaces except heat treated steel and the spring action of pushing the fingers over the part center it and also helps the points dig into it, when you pull it out it will drag all the way to the entry point thus increasing the tension on the sharp points, it usually doesn't take much to retrieve a small object like that, sometimes spring tension alone will do the job.

the trouble with a tong arrangement is the tongs have to have very short reins to open any significant amount and do not exert a lot of squeeze on the object they are grasping.

Another thing you could try is a plastic pipe with a bevel on the end to rotate it and center it in the pipe, a pipe that the part will just slide up into that is, and hook a strong shop vacum to it and retrieve it that way.

elk, I think it was a flashlight that got accidently dropped in a place it shouldn't be. by the description.

Strine, I believe a lighter modified fishing tool I made for the local oil patch would serve your purpose well, the original was made with car springs, but for your purpose I believe strapping or banding material would work.

A - is a side view of a finger.

B - is an inside view of a finger.

C - shows either 3 or 4 fingers attached to a small pipe coupling that can be connected to small diameter pipe to insert the tool down the pipe and force the tool over the object. The sharp multiple points will spring out and then bite into the object.

This worked well at 1800 feet below ground to retrieve a length of well pipe, of course it had the coupling still attached and only needed to slip over the coupling.

THE LEGACY OF A BLACKSMITH
by Jr. Strasil

My legacy was to become a Blacksmith. I am proud of this legacy, handed down from my Grandfather to my Father and then to me. I always list my Occupation as Blacksmith, and when someone asks what I do for a living, I say proudly that I am a Third Generation Blacksmith. In this day and age it always solicites a stare of disbelief, and the inevitable question, "I didn't know there were that many horses to be shoed anymore?"

Blacksmithing has certainly changed in the 100 plus years it has been practiced by my family, but, it has put food on our tables, roofs over our heads and clothes on our backs. In those 100 plus years there have been 6 Blacksmiths in my family, my Grandfather, my Father, 2 Uncles, Myself and 1 cousin. We have not been Sam Yellin's, who was a master of Beautiful Ornamental Ironwork and left his mark for many generations to see and enjoy in our Nations Capital and in Philadelphia. The Blacksmiths of my family have done some Ornamental Ironwork, but, nothing on the scale or beauty of Mr. Yellin.

We have been and are Traditional Blacksmiths who kept busy with keeping the Wheels of Industry turning, the Implements of Agriculture operating and the Tools and Devices of every- day life functioning. We have left our Mark on society around us. But, it is a Mark that is not very visible for all to see. The most we can ever hope for is that someone will look at one or our repair jobs or fabrications and say, "That sure was a Beautiful job of repairing or building that, the person who did that was a Good Craftsman.". We were not looking for fame, we were just doing our job, the best way we knew how, so we could provide for and raise a family that would perhaps have it a little easier than we did. In my immediate family the Blacksmith Legacy will probably end with me, as my only son is no longer of this world, but, has gone to another world to be with his Great Grandfather, Grandfather and 1 of his Uncles. The Strasil Blacksmith Legacy may live on in the form one of my Grandsons. Blacksmithing has been a rewarding, interesting and enjoyable occupation for 54 of the 61 years I have been on this Earth.

Oakwood, I once refused to go out on a job in the local oilfield because the bosses son who was in charge was on alchohol and drugs both. Because of that his father had him committed for the 6th time. When he got out later he kept driving by my parents house slowly, I guess looking for me (I lived at another location) and he was turned in by some suspicios neighbors and when the law stopped him he had a 44 mag pistol with scope and a 12 gauge with slugs both fully loaded. He went to prison for that and stated to the law that when he got out he would get me for putting him in twice. LOL Fortunately when he got out about 5 years later he ODed the same day he got out.

I will not work with drunks or druggies at all.

couldn't resist giving my 2

Ralph was never off my prayer list, but I will put extra effort into it now. Tell him we are all pulling for him.

Jr.

An easy way to control the air is to cover the blower opening and open it just enough to get the correct amount of air to the fire. Its a lot easier than trying to make a flap valve.

Its not really a backfire, A backfire would come out the blower.

What is happening is the unburnt gases are going down and into the air supply pipe. I know hot gases go up not down, but stop and consider that the blower is usually higher than the fire or close to it and this makes a chimney effect and actually sucks the unburnt gases (remember how the smoke will burn if you stop the blower) down thru the opening in the firepot. They are too rich to burn till you add air with the blower device and this mixes air with the unburnt gases and you then push them up into the fire. If the right mixture is obtained ( it won't do it all the time), you will get a minor explosion at the bottom of the firepot. What makes an explsion work is it is touched off in a confined space and it expands just like the air full mixture that makes a motor push the piston.

I have seen a ball of flame come out of the firepot and at the same time it launches hot coals in every direction, not a good way to get a wave in your hair or your eyebrows trimmed and some times 1st or 2nd degree burns on the operators face. Not to mention hot fine cinders and coals in your eyes if you don't have safety goggles on.

It won't happen too often, but if you want to stop it , the only way is to install a one way flapper valve in the air pipe close to the entrance at the bottom of the tuyere. Or to mount your air blower down below the firepot which is impratical unless you have an electric blower.

my 2

http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/PESTNOTES/pn7419.html

Hello, newlad, welcome to the forum, you are evidently sliding down the coal chute like the rest of us. Congratulations on your purchase of tools, I am not sure what 70 quid is in US dollars but it sounds like a really good bargain.

You have sort of opened the door with your questions, so be prepared for many different solutions to your problem.

My 2

Jr's rule of thumb for calculating shape changes. Most everyone has one of those handy little books the steel companies put out with sizes, weight per foot and weight per 20 ft.

Round to Square, look up the weight per foot of the square you desire, look in the round section till you find a round whose weight per foot is just a little more. for square to round just reverse .

If you have some scrap round and want to know what size square it will make, look up the round weight and then go look in the square section to find one that is a little less than the round is per ft.

my2

Elk Doc, my 1957 1 ton chevy has 2 complete sets of springs under it to keep it up its original GVW was 8800 lbs. it takes 6 ton (12,000) lbs license to operate it emptly legally.

what I did was take the second set of springs, cut off the eyes on the ends of the main leaves and put the 4 top leaves including the main ones less eyes right under the original main leaves. and left out the real short ones on the bottom in the front and in the back I added the top 3 main leaves in the original also leaving out the short ones on the bottom, and adding the rest to the overload springs so it rides nice when empty (which is never LOL). My 2 1/2 ton military has 2 complete sets in the back stacked one on top of the other with longer u-bolts and I replaced the front ones all except the main leaves with the rear springs from a farm truck, and rearched them to give me 18 inches of ground clearance.

Thanks Daryl, Most smiths in the US are not used to working with a striker, and I have not been exposed to European smiths working with strikers so I had no idea there were Universal signals.

I have a couple of young smiths I work with occassionaly and we use the signals taught to me by my father. When I was young I more or less grew up in the blacksmith shop and I was the striker most of the time when one was needed.

The Signals I was taught;

3 taps on horn when the piece in the forge is almost ready = Striker needed, come to anvil.

There are 3 different sized sledges for the striker, after striker shows up. 1 tap for 6 lb , 2 taps for 8 lb., 3 taps for 12 lb.

After lead smith starts working on the piece. 1 tap for Start striking, after striker starts striking, 1 tap for softer blow, 2 taps for heavier blow, lead smiths hammer laid on its side on anvil, Stop striking.

With a striker I am not familiar with, I just use words or set out the sledge I want used, and use words like softer, harder, stop.

I also use 2 small platforms for the striker to stand on so that they can stand at the right height to deliver a fair and square blow with their sledge, from expierience I have found out its easier to deliver a better blow and a lot easier on the strikers shoulders if they are at the right height for striking, especially when striking a top tool. And the sledge handles are cut off to about 24 inches so they don't have to fight the sledge handle to the side when striking.

I guess I am what would be called an Old School Smith.

Well here we go again with a twist this time.

I guess my grandfather, my father, my uncle and all the OLD blacksmiths I grew up with were REAL BLACKSMITHS then.

You don't really ring the anvil or hit it, its a resting tap sort of when turning the workpiece. You just let the hammer fall on the anvil instead of stopping, it keeps your rythum going I guess. Any way that was the way I was taught by my father and uncle.

Now to the subject of a sway back anvil.

Most of my anvils are sway back from use. Most anvils that were used for plow work will be that way from the constant pounding in one place. The type of work done will determine whether the anvil is swaaaay back or not. A lot of old smiths crowned their anvils too. They will be high in the center and lower on the sides, they thought the crown helped draw the material a little more than just a flat face.

Cause; The cause of sway back is the crushing of the wrought iron under the hard face from constant use. If you will look close at a sway back anvil the sides will be pushed out where the sway is. The top is really not worn away but driven down from constant use in one spot, some call this the sweet spot of the anvil. The sway is very useful for straightening things as there is a little give so the metal can go past center a little to facilitate straightening.

$.02 worth from an OLD smith

As was stated above, 6 inches is enough to start a scroll and get the detail you want. If you are working it around a scroll jig this gives you enough heat and time to do it right and get it formed around the jig good. A second heat will let you finish it and you can cool the first part to keep from damaging it when working the second part.


If you are doing a scroll free hand on the horn or in horns in the hardy hole 6 inches is almost to much to work and get it formed decently. all scrolls are works of art and even with a jig no two are exactly alike. Most small scrolls will use about a foot of material and if you are trying to work a foot of material all hot its going to move where you don't want it to, and your are going to sacrifice quantity for quality, scrolls take time to do right, and if you try to speed things up to the point of only a couple of minutes for each scroll they are not going to look worth a darn.

Remember you want to end up with something you are not ashamed to put you name on, and brag to someone that I did that.

Personally I take 4 or more heats to get something that is pleasing to my eye. take the time to do it right the first time. after you make quite a few they get easier.

To me taking a real long heat on a bar to make a scroll would be like trying to stuff a wet noodle up a pipe from the bottom, it will do anything but what you want it to.

that's what I thought first time I heard about it Woody a long time ago. But, the National Blacksmiths and Weldors Association I belong to started out as a bunch of horseshoers(farriers) in NY in the late 1800's. I am one of the few in the Association who can forge iron now. LOL

I think you are forgetting that trailer balls have to be tough. If they were subject to work hardening, they might break form rough use, and can you imagine what would happen if one broke and the towed thing came loose and hit a van load of kids or a school bus. I have had people come in with them bend almost 90 degrees after some kind of accident or stupid attack and I will not touch them cause they have stress from the bending in them already and if I straighten them it will only increase the stress and make them really unsafe, not to mention I would be responsible for the liability on them and I would be leaving myself open for a humongous lawsuit. I still think they are stressproof, I have made things out of them and the chips coming off them in the lathe look like stressproof.

1. The piece of 3/8 by 6 angle iron I put in a leg vice on one of the back benches for a temporary work area 20 + years ago, It hasn't been removed except for once in that time to turn it so I would have a new surface to work on.

2. Back when I used my chop saw a lot, I made a light angle iron stand to put it on so I wouldn't have to stoop over to use it anywhere and then a table on the off cut side that could have a piece of angle iron clamped to it for a stop for short pieces and a stock stand under the outside end to hold up the end.

3. Short pieces of 1 1/4 inch square tube welded to my other bench at the same height, so I could slip peices of 1 inch square tube with a T top in them to hold long things up , like augers etc when working on them, they are a set height even with the bottom of the Big Vice so I can clamp things to keep from rotating or moving while I work on them.

Wishwon, I am assuming some will send things even if they can't make it to the hammerin. I imagine after the first day most of the stuff up for auction will be known and if possum wants to list it on this site you would be able to make a bid if you desired. That will be up to Possum to decide, of course shipping would be extra

LOL, Cold forged, read CNC lathe forged.

Can you imagine what they would cost made out of S series steel.

Well in defense of Glenn's statement above, it was Glenn who was holding the iron and when I got done he showed me how it should have been done as he is more proficient with his left hand and I only use mine if it is absolutely necessary.

Now as to a 2 pound hammer, to me its a toy and I only use one as a finish hammer preferring a 2.5, 3 or larger so I don't have to stand at the anvil pecking away with a little hammer when there is metal to move. Move it and be done with it. The customer is expecting me to move iron not bruise it to death. But you must consider that I have been using hammers all my life to make a living and you have to use what the job calls for if you are capable.

My main anvil is a 125 # Blackjack and it works just as well as the 58 # Acme I used to have. I have a 400 # or so anvil and it just sets and collects dust till I need it to do walking plow lays as it has a big enough face that I can lay the whole plow lay on and do the wing pivot. Why everybody thinks they need a humongous anvil to do work, Beats me.

Then there is the power hammer theory, the weight of the power (moving) head should be a ratio of 2lbs to every 100 lbs of the bases weight for stability. Somehow everbody got to thinking you are not supposed to use over a 2 lb hand hammer on a 100 pound anvil, get real and think about that one for a bit. What are you gonna do split a 100# anvil down the middle by using heavier than a 2 lb hammer. My grandfather, my father and my uncle and I all used a 4# hammer to finish plow lays with on a 100 lb or so anvil and the Anvil is still alive and well.

A power hammer is nice at times, I have 4, 2 of them under power at the moment, and they get used very little, just for mainly plowlays and big rotary mower blades, but they are there if I really need them. I don't have a treadle hammer as they take more energy to move metal than a hand hammer does and are a lot slower. I have started to make one, but it will have an air cylinder to operate it and be temporarily fastened to the waist of the 400 # anvil to function as a striker as I work alone, and will be swung out of the way at other times.

An Oxy-Acetylene torch is a must for cutting and brazing and some welding, but a MIG (wire feed) Welder is more efficient, faster, and has less heat build up for welding light material. A good AC-DC welder is more useful, quicker and less expensive than a TIG welder. I have a Tig set up, but only use it for Aluminum and Stainless as it is so expensive to operate, Gas is outrageous, filler metals are higher than a cats back and the consumable parts of the torch are expensive and its slow. It has its place just like the other processes. A plasma cutter is a more useful machine and a lot more versatile than a TIG set up.

I am in mainly the repair business with some light fabricating and some machining work. I have a large hydraulic press also and it gets a lot of work done for me. I have a shop full of tools, a portable rig full of tools and some more loaned out and some stored in my garage. I didn't get them all at once but they were purchased as they and the money came available over a 40 year period since I started my own business. Most of the first purchases have been replaced with newer used machines. I buy very little new machinery due to the initial cost.

well that's my windy 2 cents worth and I am sticking to it.

Now to the question posed at the start of this thread, Dan my advise to you would be to put money into a savings account and just watch other people work and how they work and how they do things. You are young and right now you have a deep and inquiring interest in becoming a blacksmith, but as you get older your life may take a different direction and if you have all your cash tied up in smithing tools you will have to liquidate them to go another direction. Take it slow and work with what you have and learn how to do it without all the fancy stuff first, If you really do end up smithing for a living it will make you a better smith in the long run when one of those fancy machines breaks down in the middle of a job.

But then I am just an old crusty opinated (hard headed) old smith. I have been down the road you are traveling at the moment. It has been a good road for me altho a dirty and strenuous one. Just what ever you do, do not injure your back, or loose an eye as I did.

Irnsrgn