Ric Furrer

I remember when it was a long day trying to forge 1" by hand, then dreaming about owning a big hammer (100lb little giant). Its funny how your perspective changes, now my four hammers have a combined ram weight of 1750lb but I would own a H frame 2000 if the opportunity presented itself. I'm sure the guys in the industry consider anything under a 2000 a small hammer!

Forging 1" square down by hand now is harder by hand then it was when I did not have the power hammer...knowing there is a better way and not being able to exploit that is what causes me pain now.

A 2,000 pounds would too big for me, but an 800-1,000 would be useful for five minutes a month.

Harold,
You could always charge smiths $5 to see it running...may even cover the cost of electricity for turning it on.

Ric

GOODBYE

Steve,
If I offended you I appologize. My intent was not a challenge, but as they say how "the business of business is business".

Personally I feel that the introduction of the "widget" into business classes was a downfall..it removed a specific product and replaced it with an interchangeable word..a universal one.
In this way the student is forced to believe all is the same regardless of product......control the words the minds will follow.

Longevity is replaced with quarterly profit reports and the whole is always worth less than the parts.
Planned obsolescence replacing generational quality.
Finding areas where the law is ambiguous and perusing that rather than an all encompassing level playing field.

Much of my thoughts (hopes really) on business are naive and I think that shows, but to think that to run a business making a widget the one need to be able to make that widget ones-self to have it be a success, well, then you are more of a coal shoveler on that train than the railroad baron.

Ric

Brian,

Good finish work on the bracelets..it is not a simple thing to get a good even look on such things.

A few thoughts.

In the future:
Take the finished work after forging and once you grind off the scale and heat it to dull red and let it air cool in a warm place..like maybe cleanup all three and heat up the forge to orange and then set them in, block off the opening and turn off the gas and air (if a gas forge) and let it sit there till morning.
This should give it enough softness to withstand resizing cold. A think section of the steels you used may, just may, harden to some degree if heated and cooled in open air so I say leave them in the forge to cool.

Nickel:
The european union has made the use of nickel (in other than some stainless steels) illegal...as in no pure nickel nor nickel silver due to allergic reactions. Something to keep in mind.

Ric

Hello All,
I heard about this "safe" Superwool 607 HT ceramic fiber wool material so I bought some.
It is rated at 1300C max and continuous at 1150C...I found it breaks down at my welding temps rather quickly and would say that general forging it would be just almost OK, but not for higher temp work.
I'll try a satanite wash and see if that improves the life.

I had been using it as an end cap to cover the forge ends and it got hard and melted at my welding temps.
Ric

Wishing to learn business techniques involved in commercial forging ( with zero forging experience )is a novel approach. It would be akin to perhaps learning the lumber trade ( raw to finished goods ) without having basic handsaw skills. Basic skills and experience would be the key.

I believe the Harvard Business school would object to that Ten. With few exceptions the idea is to somewhat adapt standard business principles to ALL businesses.
I once went to a Business Assoc in Wisconsin to seek a mentor for my small blacksmith shop. We talked a bit over the phone and I laid out what I did, how and the "profit". He said it was not a business...it was a hobby. I went on to describe the nature of craft businesses and he listened.... "Oh..you are an artist....well, I don't have much advice then."
I have spoken to several Art Schools, some with metals programs and some not.....NONE...yep..NONE have mandatory business classes for the students majoring in Art and very few of the students seek out this information on their own. They graduate and then look for work with little background in how that work will be sold, marketed or how the business is maintained.

I would wager Grant's skill in business could be applied to most any endeavor...consulting work is often mission specific so that is a special thing.

Ric

Well I don't know how ''good'' this configuration is but it has stood the test of time, at least 20 yrs.........If I ever make more, I might try a rack an pinion thing............

How is the leakage around the door?
Any issues with wear on the brick to brick contact surfaces?

Ric

Hello All,
Anyone have a good design for a guillotine forge doors?

Ric

I really don't know what your talking about...

Now back to the press!

Once again I seem to have had an interesting conversation ..all alone.

I have looked into accumulators and very rapid presses (very high volume at low pressure).
Some industrial presses have this rapid feature... and I can see a few times it would be useful.
BUT
then again may 45 ton press with a foot control has this little electric eye on a slide so I can set the return of the cylinder to any level in its stroke. In this way I can size the operation when cold and when it is hot I can get the work between the dies and come right down in a very short time.
If I had to do a full cycle every time I think the rapid flow would be needed.

I see many styles of industrial hydraulic presses out there for sale now, but none are close nor cheap.
Ric

Its true.... I am a sick boy

Danger and I corresponded about this..if not for Larry then he and I would be in the cross-hairs...keep up the good work Monster and don't tell my wife about the other tools I am looking for..... .

Ric

Mr Furrer -Please give us a heads up if you get an update on the Bladesmith's Form. That is quite the machine. -tks grant

Will do Grant.

I thought the "best" on that thread, other than the guy actually doing it, was the suggestion of a motorcycle wheel....off the shelf parts.
I would think a wheel could be cast with urethane around the it and trued for OK money...and then you can run any belt you can fit.


Ric

Ryan,
I assume this is mokume or similar.

The simplest would be a large rolling mill.
failing that have a look on youtube for the Copper vessel makers of Mexico or related videos.

As a general rule you are looking for spread in two directions not four which means a fuller...a rolling mill being a continuous fuller.

A small power hammer with drawing dies would be useful..25 little giant or similar. I would think with some looking you could attend a blacksmith gathering close to you and have them help you.

Ric

I suggest you do this:
http://forums.dfoggknives.com/index.php?showtopic=15046&view=&hl=grinding%20wheel&fromsearch=1
"old world grinding meets the modern west" under tool making category...in case the link fails.

If you intend to make a large wheel grinder I think this is the way to go, but if you wish to kit a period shop out then it is not.

I thought about making one about six feet in diameter....or maybe ten.....
Never got past the thinking stage.

Ric

We really shouldn't encourage each other!

I'm really digging your rig Larry, I think thats the ticket. A couple of changes I may make in mine, drop the C down lower behind the table and devising a way to roll it on its back so I can use it horizontal.

Ric, the year is half over buddy, race you to the finish!

You win...I began my press 18 months ago in the real world and about five minutes after first using my 45 ton five years ago. It would seem I am all talk on this one.

There is this one on ebay...almost big enough for my dreams: 565 ton
http://cgi.ebay.com/24-Dia-x-180-Stroke-Hydraulic-Cylinder-565-tons-nice-/330547662330?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4cf62d0dfa#ht_1946wt_907

Ric

I am building a 140 ton press ..will be 18"x30 of table and an "H" style with a 12" diameter cylinder and 12" of stroke..I had loads done by an engineer as I did not trust myself.
I beam for the verticals and 18" "C" channel and some plate for the horizontals.
The power pack will be a 28gpm two stage pump running off a 15hp motor...should move 0.6" per second to 45 ton and then 1/4 slower at full power.

I have all the parts and hope to get it fabricated this year.

RIc

Interesting set up.

http://buchen-goodwi...ton/IMAGES.html

Indeed......now build an H like that and you may be able to go another 50 ton and go larger forming...or find an older four post press.

There is a press at the local ship yard which has a moving head..it is ten foot wide at least and about three foot of clearance..they cold form aluminum for the hulls. Not sure of tonnage.

Ric

Kurt,
What you are searching for can be answered in part with the forging programs which are available from companies like MSC.SuperForge and other FEM programs.
Much of it is specific to the part and some companies who do very large runs have customized proprietary programs for such.
It is a "new" science and much is not known and there is always a difference between computer model and the real world.

But
specific to you needs I suggest rather than making it yourself to have a confidentiality agreement set up with your lawyer, the part spec'd out by an engineer familiar with the automotive industry (many I would think are looking for work) and then have several drop forge shops quote you the final part cost for a run. The forge shop will do the die engineering.

If YOU really wish to do this alone with research you conduct and then teach yourself how to efficiently make the part and self insure then I think you are in for a long road..five years is an underestimate in my view...ten to fifteen is more like it.

You may also wish to look into PM or IC (powdered metallurgy or investment casting). but here again..YOU..would not do the actual manufacturing, but rather have others do the run under your specs.

It may be that you should spec out your idea and have a 3d model make (wood, plastic metal) and then again have lawyer agreements set up and approach those already in industry and sell them your idea. You may get a one time fee or a per part percentage. The liability would be less if you sell them the idea.

I looked into making damascus gun barrels some time ago...liability, not my ability, put a damper on the idea.

Ric

I worked out a cost for forging an anvil here. I contacted the person with the price and have heard nothing since. I assume that being a TV programme they expect us to work for free.

Could have been something about filming overseas as well...may not have been in their plan or maybe the combined costs.
At any rate I think they were leaning toward the group that welded the face on an anvil at SOFA a few years ago.

I told them I would make a 60 pounds anvil, but not larger.

Ric

Matt let me offer another bit if hard earned knowledge. I know it's natural to want to do what you can but I wouldn't spend the money yet to get the power sorted. Unless you have an unlimited budget. I made the mistake of building my foundation before opening up the hammer. Now I have a hulk sitting in my shop that I can't really afford to work on. Would have been much better to know I had a functioning machine before spending $6000 for foundation and power. If you have unlimited space and money I guess it's not an issue, it would just really suck to spend dough for power and foundation only to get to a impass and be unable to get the hammer running.

Larry..I'm in a bit of pain on your behalf.....

Ric

That is too bad...Tim has done this many times without incident.
This will not speak well of the activity.

So..whom did they get to forge the anvil? I spoke to them last year and they said they had someone.

Ric

I bought my 30hp Rotary Phase converter from these guys and have had friends buy another three of them..no issues.
They are running a sale now on Ebay:
http://stores.ebay.com/American-Rotary-Industrial-Power?_trksid=p4340.l2563
sometimes buying used at the same price as new is not a good idea.

You can see a hint of the bypass valving I use on start-up on this video:
at minute 5 or so...just as Larry says..some pipe and a valve in place of one of the plugs on the hammer. It makes for a "softer" start on the compressor.

Also on Ebay you can find a starter and heaters for the on/off switch.
you may also need a three phase panel for breakers and the breaker to feed the rotary converter.

An electrician can hook the Rotary phase converter and the on/off in a day...may as well have a few other outlets put in at other amps on a carcase you can take with you when you leave.

MAKE SURE that any and all electrical you do in that rental is yours to take with you when you leave if you wish!

Ric

I'd have to run a water powered wheel..and the 20hp motor running a pump to move the water...just hide it behind the shop.
Actually if you had a water feature on your property you could use the run-off as a waterfall...could be quite nice.

I like the look of that hammer and the idea behind it, but I would not exchange my Nazel for that one.

"I hope to make a set in 1/4" intervals down to 3/4" and up to 2 inch then in 1/8" intervals to 1/4", for a grand total of about 10 chisels. a pretty good set, for me at least."

Good looking chisels. When log cabins were big business years ago, there was a pretty good niche market for custom tools like this.

Roy Underhill mentioned in one of his shows that he bought a new complete set in one of his visits to England. When he got home, he realized that they were metric widths, and useless to him.

I remember Roy's woodworking series on PBS..I do not recall him ever using a ruler....not sure how making it a bit smaller or larger would have affected his life at all.
AND
one can always regrind the tool...

Ric

Hello All,
I do not know anything about this festival, but I do not think I would participate.

Ric

I like this one..thinner steel bar so it travels a bit further.

First time I used my mill I ran the tongs through...they did not fit, but rather wedged in tight.

Ric

I do not know the tool, but that wood can come to my shop to season.....
Not sure if you are interested in mailing some of that South, but I am always looking for good bits of interesting wood.

Ric