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I Forge Iron

kraythe

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Everything posted by kraythe

  1. I am not new to this. I am looking for more expert information on the strength of castables. If I wanted to build another forge, I would. The question of the original post revolved around thermal cycling of Kastolyte, not alternative forging plans. I don't mean to be short but it's a pet peeve of mine when people post without answering the question in the original post. If you don't have that expertise then please refrain. Cutting a propane bottle with a torch, plasma or even a saw is a short path to whatever deity you believe in. There is no way to make such a bottle safe after it has been filled and especially if it is old. Furthermore 1" of castable and 1" of wool will cost you a ton of cash in the long run. Not to mention the fact that the castable will press down the wool with weight and reduce the insulation power of the wool itself. Why would I go to the trouble of building a ribbon burner and shove it in a substandard forge? Hmm ... if you are still at the stage of doing can forges, I would wonder about a ribbon burner. If you don't have those welds gas tight and a good seal with the Kastolyte, you will be in deep trouble. Also did you consider the volume of the area in a propane tank, the enclosed back and the dragons breath? Ribbon burners put out a crapload of BTUs on blowers and I'd hate to see you get cooked by the dragon's breath.
  2. Dont do that unless you want a trip to the emrgency room. Use a sparker like the kind meant to start OA torches.
  3. I agree on losing temper. Especially with propane. The reality is the gas velocity wasnt high enough to cause the venturi effect. You either needed a smaller nozzle, or to reposition the nozzle further in the burner. I have run venturis in high wind just fine (though I prefer blown burners for unrelated reasons)
  4. ITC 100 is very effective stuff. Satanite is not much more than refractory mortar. It is, however, important that you cover ceramic fiber with satanite or another strategy. That fiber when airborne is bad news for the lungs. For ITC-100 see the Hitemp refractory store on ebay.
  5. Greetings, I am planning up a new forge since my old firebrick pile is being dissolved by borax. I had considered making the interior 7" high by 9" wide by 10" deep. The first inch on the hot face would be poured Kastolyte 30 with stainless steel reinforcing needles as 5% by volume. The remaining insulation would be 2300 degree superwool. This will all be powered by a 3x5 ribbon burner. Since the roof would be flat, I am a tad concerned with thermal cycling cracking the roof and caving it into the forge. So here are the questions I put to you. 1) Am I just fine with the flat roof being cast in one piece with the sides? a) If not should I use an arched roof? 2) Do you think I need to put some ceramic fiber as an islator between the cast walls and roof to allow isolated expansion; such as between a poured patio and a house? All opinions are welcome.
  6. This is a project by my 15 year old son who has been smithing with me for about a year. He often is my striker on heavier projects. The candle holder was made from three pieces of 1/4" square stock that were heated to forge welding temps and then twisted to weld together. After that he scrolled off the ends by had and then used an electric MIG welder to fix the hand forged square candle squares to the frame. The candle squares were made by curving up the corners of square cut flat stock and then using a black iron pipe as a tool to re flatten the center so the candles will sit flat. He gave it to his grandmother as a present.
  7. Uh no not really. Just wonder what poeple think it is. Did you look at the video?
  8. Yeah I couldnt upload the video. I ended up putting it on youtube. I have read a lot about spark testing .I am more interested in if my opinion is right or not. More of a cross check.
  9. Greetings. Attached is a spark test off some paving breaker bits I got used at the hardware store. I have an opinion on what the steel is but I would prefer not to bias the assessment. If anyone can help identify it, that would be great. All opinions are eagerly solicited.
  10. You know that might not be such a bad idea if you could find wires made of steels with dramatically more contrast. The pattern in cable is often quite a bit subtle. If you could mix 1040 with say 15n20 (the normal stack) but instead use wire or 1/8th rod, that could be interesting.
  11. Sure. Rust is just iron oxide which would burn off fast. Unless the cable is so badly rusted that it had no more structural integrity it should work. Just follow what I did. As to a cable having sentimental value that is ... Odd. But hey, each to their own I say.
  12. It maters when the valve is open or you will choke the forge of fuel.
  13. Greetings, I am looking to buy a normally closed solenoid valve from MSC Direct that will serve as a safety shutoff if my blower looses power. So what I wanted to know is given my propane is being pulled out at x psi and that the diameter of the hose is 1/4", how can I compute the flow rate so that I can get the correct valve without impeding forge performance or over engineering. Thanks in advance.
  14. I dont follow what you mean about the unpunched tail being a rivet. Making special tongs is a good idea, Just a set of needle nosed hand tongs might be an idea. I could potentially groove them to take the rod like a swage. However, given the small metal I would have to preheat them or they would suck welding heat out of the chain. The part about the rivet I dont get though.
  15. That will be a problem with thermal cycling. ITC-100 is not enough to make KAO Wool or other ceramic blanket rigid. You will need a wool rigidizer at least. Many square forges are done with castable honeycomb instead.
  16. Greetings, I have a family member that would like me to make a religious chain for her wrist out of black iron. The chain would have to be wearable so I was considering making it out of 1/8" rod. I know how to make bigger chain but this is so fine and small that I am at a loss for how to do it. Can someone recommend techniques and tooling to make the chain using forge welded lengths. My experiments so far have not been successful.
  17. I have pretty much decided to go with a blower for my next burner. However, I am wondering what kind of heat I would get from a blown tube vs a ribbon burner. I know the ribbon burners are more efficient than the blown but the question is if they can get up to forge welding temps as easy as a tube burner. I would like to build a second burner that will do post 3k degrees and put that in a new furnace for melting aluminum, brass and possibly even cast iron. So can anyone shed some light on the comparison of the two ?
  18. I have an old forge made of KAST-O-LITE with a destroyed floor from borax. I was thinking of whether I could recycle it to use as an underlayment for metal casting tasks. Instead of sand I was thinking of taking the old castable and crushing it with a sledge hammer. Theorectically I would end up with refractory gravel that might be a great base for putting hot things on or pouring molten brass over. Any thoughts as to whether this is a viable idea ?
  19. I am finally building my ribbon burner forge as Borax has consumed my brick pile forge to a dangerous level. The forge design is built to allow hard bricks to be used as a sacrificial floor though I fancy I will be using a disposable 1/4" wall metal pan when welding anyway as borax is just nasty on the insides of the forge. That being said, I have a quandry when it comes to insulation. The forge is designed to be modular with 2" of insulation on all sides and faced with ITC-100. So I have a couple insulation options. Pleated Superwool. This is the "healythy" stuff and I could pleat it and hold it with 1/4" stainless rods coated with ITC 232. The disadvantage is that the wool has an rated temp of about 2300 but we can guess more accurately a healthy working temp of 2100. When welding I typically hit 2500 with my current venturi and I would be surprised if my new blown ribbon burner couldnt leave that in the dust. I dont think the ITC will be good enough to protect the superwool so I have to think of something else to coat it with. Refractory mortar wont do because it doesnt insulate. I would need a 3000+ degree castable and then I would have to devise some manner to bond the castable to the superwool. I could try and cast it right on top with an inch of superwool and an inch of castable but I think that the bond wouldnt be good and the castable would just tear out the superwool. In fact I cant devise a means to do a coating that will really hot face the superwool, and hold with minimal cracking. I figure with most castables I need a 2" pour minumum to make a viable structure when it comes to thermal cycling. So perhaps I should just cast the whole thing. Of course then you worry about if it will have enough insulation if you do that. Castables are loads denser than wool and correspondingly less insulating capacity. However the ITC coating would help out a great deal and there would be no question of durability. Cast-o-lite 30li has a good rating but then I worry about insulation amount. Sure the cast option would take longer to come up to temperature but that would be ok. The question is, is 2" of cast-o-lite going to be enough to have a viable forge that keeps the heat in? One idea that I had was to use some kind of castable that is made of phosphate bonded materials to resist the borax. The problem is I cant find a supplier of that on the internet. If I could get a castable like that, it would be great. So, any opinions? Any light to shed on the decision? Thanks in advance.
  20. So I am not a pro smith so dont be too harsh. I am learning fast but have much more to learn. I was making a candle holder and it turned out pretty nice but not nearly as precise as I wanted. I wish the legs were a bit more symetrical and a I think it is slightly, less than 1/8" off center. The way I did it is to take a square of 1/8th steel and round up the corners with a rounded hammer then flatten the center using a pipe larger than the prospective candles. Once done with the dish, I made the legs out of 1/4" square stock. I created a rat tail and then twisted and bent like a j-hook. Then I scrolled the other end a bit after rounding it off. After that I cheated and MIG welded the legs to the dish. All was finished with burned in beeswax. The big problem that i had was in setting up the legs and leveling. I wanted all four legs to meet in the middle and then go out to the corners but due to tiny variations in forging, I had slight 1/8" or 1/4" variances that made the whole thing wobble. To fix it I heated the legs with an OA torch and tried to tap them into shape. 2 hours later I finally got it to at least the acceptable stage. I would heat the bend of the hook and then try tapping with a hammer and then repeat until it seemed flat and level. Now one problem is that not all of my hook legs were identical or close to identical. I have variations in them that make them slightly different. I think I will get better at replicating with time. However, when it comes to setting up and configuring the legs for a flat base to weld them, that process sucked. So I was wondering what tips you might have for leveling such a project. or any other tips. Thanks for your time.
  21. I have been perfecting my cable welding technique and I thought I would share what I do and hopefully it can be of some use to people. As usual I am open to any suggestions should people have ideas. Materials I get all of my cable as scraps from crane rigging shops. Open the phone book or google and search for "Rigging" in your area. Call them up and tell them you are a hobby blacksmith and that you are looking for scraps of cable that you can have. Volunteer to sign any legal waivers. Some companies will be worried you will try to use the cable as is and hold them liable. Tell them you plan to destroy it so they don't have to worry but you would be happy to sign a waiver if they wish. Usually they will give you scraps for free. Try to get pieces four feet long or so if you can. Only get steel cable, no fiber or plastic cores. You will need a good flux built for gas forges (I don't do coal). TheZ Weld brand from Blacksmith Depot works well. You will need a good amount for each cable. If you skimp on flux you will fail. Equipment: Gas Forge. I dont do coal because of lung issues but I am sure it could be done. Careful with coal heat or you could burn the small cable strands easily. Gas is easier. Angle Grinder with grinding wheels. A metal pan made out of 1/8" plate with sides at least half an inch high that fits the bottom of your forge. You will be using a ton of borax and it will make a lake in the forge and eat your insulation like candy. If you dont put in a pan you will be replacing forge parts and end up with a mess. Consider the pan expendable as it will need to be replaced. MIG or stick welder and appropriate consumables. Vise (post or big machinists if you are like me and cant afford a post vise) Pipe wrench big enough to go around the cable. Process: If your cable is four feet long or so then you are off to a good start. If you have an 8 foot piece, see if they will cut it for you. If is shorter like a foot or so, you will need to weld a piece of rebar to use as a handle. Don't mess with tongs if you can avoid it as it will slow you down a lot. Take a welder with low settings and weld the ends of the cable to keep from unraveling. Put the pan in your forge and fire it up. Let it get nice and hot. Put the cable in the forge and heat the thing yellow in stages, working up the cable burning off grease and then move up to burn off more. Walk yellow all the way up the cable. If you have a long cable you can flip it around after you put half of it through. Get it nice and yellow to get rid of anything organic. When you get to the other end you are ready to start welding. Oh and use a lot of ventilation. The smell will be nasty. Beware of toxic fumes and pissed off wives (the second is more dangerous). Put the cable in and heat about six inches of the cable to yellow. Put the cable welded end in a vice and twist opposite the strand direction. The cable will open up like a basket on a blacksmith project. You dont need it really wide, just enough to be able to get flux inside the cable. Brush off the cable while hot, flux everything well. If you spare the flux at any step you will fail. Now begins the welding steps: From now on when heated, you will bring the cable to welding heat so that the flux is visibly boiling. Remember the core must also heat so be willing to soak the cable in heat.Also remember that speed is much more important than force. Although force is needed, if you let the cable sit outside 15 seconds, you have to reheat it because your chance to weld is done. Heat the 6 inches to welding heat, pull out, quickly put it in a vise and twist it back together hard. Re-flux. When you are twisting, constantly brush off scale. Heat the 6 inches to welding heat, adjust a pipe wrench to the cable while heating. Pull out and quickly, set the pipe wrench just above the 6 inches and twist tight. Dont go too tight so that the cable starts to buckle, just tight so the cable has the same thickness but tighter coils. This part takes experience. Then re-flux it.Constantly brush off scale. Heat again and then get ready to hit it with a hammer and anvil. At this point it will be convenient if the anvil is warm. I usually heat a piece of thick steel to yellow and before I get to this point let it sit on my anvil warming it. Once the flux is boiling yank it out and start hammering while turning the cable with the direction of the wrap. You will hear a thudding sound that indicates its not totally welded. The thudding sound will become dinging sound as you weld it. This step may take you several heats. As soon as you lose heat, reflux and reheat. You will have only a few seconds per heat. Speed is more important than force when hitting. If you have a striker or a young teenage son like I do, put them on the hammer for the hammering. That will allow you to spin the cable while he hits. He will probably hit way too hard at first. If you are flattening the cable at that point, you are hitting too hard. Don't use a power hammer. It hits too hard. Make sure you brush it before you flux and put it back in the forge. Once the whole 6 inches is dinging nicely then you are done with that section. Push down 6 inches and start working on the next six inches repeating the welding steps. Once you are past the center of the 4 foot cable, flip it around, let it cool a bit, and continue working until you get to the other end. Now that the whole cable is welded, straighten it on the anvil and even on the floor if need be. Time to grind. Set up your angle grinder and protect your eyes and lungs. At this point the steel will be welded but there will be ridges in the steel from where the cable bundles were. If you skip this step and forge something from the steel, you will introduce cold shuts and ruin whatever you were forging. Using an angle grinder or belt grinder with a rough belt, grind down the cable to the point where the ridges are ground out of the cable. You will be left with a solid bar of pattern welded cable steel that you can start forging flat or whatever you need. At this point you can fold it and forge weld it, cut and stack it or whatever suits your fancy. Its pretty hard steel to work but can be done by hand. If you have a power hammer, I am envious and I stick out my tongue at thee! Life will be easy. I hope this helps. Let me know how yours turns out. I might add some pictures later but my shop is a disaster now and the weekend project will be to clean it out. :(
  22. Would that cure transparently ? I would want as thin layer as possible.
  23. Greetings, I am working on my next piece of cable damascus and I thought I would make a ring out of my first successful piece for sentimental value. So I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on how to finish the ring to protect the wearer from any reaction as well as to protect the ring from constant skin contact. Anyone have any ideas?
  24. Well my first experiment with cable has ended badly. So before I give it another go, I am seeking advice. First I took cable, heated to burn off oil, fluxed it, heated, fluxed, heated, twisted hand tight, fluxed, heated, twisted with a pipe wrench and finally beat it down into a 3/16" x 1" x 11" billet. I gave it a once over with the angle grinder and life looked grand. Next step would be a damascus fork (picture of the normal steel version which was my goal is below). I split the damascus by drilling a hole for the end of the tines and then using a hacksaw to get a precise cut (because I had problems hot cutting the non-damascus black version with a chisel. Then i heated to fuller the handle down to a neck that would ultimately be a round middle section of the fork, leaving a flat handle for gripping. Then I flipped the fork around and fullered the other side, both times with a spring fuller tool (homemade). As I was squaring the flat stock between the fullers the damascus started to crack longitudinally. I thought it might be because i necked down too far but I am not entirely sure now. I wonder if the inner strands of wire just weren't welded. Anyway I am seeking advice on this one. I appreciate your input.
  25. Well, I finally got around to doing a flesh fork. Its not perfect but it actually didnt turn out too bad. I am practicing with mild steel so that when I make the fork with my cable damascus bar, I will be good at it. I started out with 3/4" x 3/16ths flat bar. I then formed the rat tail and scroll handle with half face blows on the radius. Then I used my home made spring fuller to neck down the round part of the handle. Then I hammered that part square, octagon and then round. Then I flipped it over and tried to chisel cut down the center and it wasnt quite centered. I then spread the tines into a T, put it in my vice and hammered down the T flat. Then I drew out the two tines, octagoned them and then rounded them. After bending the tines back into fork shape i found one was longer so I drew out the shorter one a bit more and then I power brushed it and coated it with corn oil which burnt off mostly but formed a finish. Took way too many heats but then I had never done that before. I learned some lessons. First of all, turning flat bar into square is hard work, it keeps trying to roll over on me. I have to find a solution to that one. Also chiseling down the center proved inaccurate for me. I have decided to drill a stop hole and then use a hacksaw to cut the cable (although the cable seems like it might be actually harder than the hacksaw blade. Constructive comments appreciated!
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