Toreus

I recently overheated my propane forge and melted the wires I was using to hold in the ceramic wool, along with the piece I was working on. With nothing to hold it, the insulation drooped and now the flame is in places it shouldn't be.

Is it safe to simply wire the insulation back in place? Will having it fired above its rating make it more dangerous?

The <MSDS> for the insulation I used.

I didn't know about this when I first installed it. The guys who sold it didn't use any protection, so I figured I'd be safe enough with a dust mask and wetting down the insulation. If I *can* do anything with the insulation, I'm buying myself a p100 half-face mask asap.

Thanks,
Toreus

PS: I posted something similar but more long-winded in the Gas Forges forum a few days ago, no response yet. Hope I'm not committing a faux-pas by putting this here.

I made a "button" out of soft firebrick, put a high-temp wire through it and coated the entire thing with high-temp cement (to prevent the wire from oxidizing away). That held my ceramic blanket in place really well until I got the forge hot enough to melt the retaining wires (and the work I had in it at the time).

If I was to do it again, I'd probably put chicken wire (or even better, a mesh of high-temp wire) between the first and second layers of blanket, attach that mesh to the shell, and hope that some more high-temp cement would be enough to glue the insulation to the mesh.

Same thing might work with castable- when it cracks, it might hold it together regardless, sorta like rebar with cement.

If you wanted a more even heat, what about putting some sort of a choke/baffle in the gas tube nearest the blower (not near where it enters the forge).

Disclaimer: I am still new at this :unsure:

I decided to try forge-welding using my propane forge. I did manage to get a weld, but some insulation fell out. When I fired it afterwards, there were hotspots on the forge body and so I had to shut it down before it got up to operating temperature. Turns out the insulation had drooped, and the propane-air mixture was burning between the insulation and the forge body and between the insulation layers itself!

I found this:



I've heard scary things about working with ceramic wool after it has been fired and so I haven't messed with it just yet.

(1) I was wondering if it would be safe/possible to make another "holder button" (don't know if there's a term for them) and simply replace the one that had its wires melted.



The green is some high-temperature kiln wire, the buttons are made of soft firebrick coated with high-temp cement.

If repairing this forge is going to be difficult, I may simply build another one- since the wires melted the first time I tried to forge-weld, they might fail after a while at regular forging temperatures.

(2) For those of you who have curved ceilings and don't use castable refractory, how do you keep the ceramic wool from drooping/falling down?

The only place I could find in Manitoba that sold refractory LINK has several months' lead time for bricks or ceramic wool (Fiberfrax brand) higher than 2300F. It looks like I hadn't done enough research when I bought the stuff . Could that temperature rating have something do to with the failure?

Thanks,
Toreus


EDIT: Clarification and added info.

I don't intend on using anything heavier than my 2.5lb regular hammer on the heel so I should be good.

Edge and Southshore:

I thought about grinding the surface smooth, but would that affect the temper or thin out the faceplate too much?

For the edges, do you suggest radiusing them until they're smooth, or...?

Sask Mark:

Now that you've named it, Foster fair jumps out at me- thanks!

I bought this anvil yesterday for $60 (Canadian )




The heel was broken off and welded back on and some supports were added. The tip of the horn was built back up. Most of the edges have been welded up as well, but there is a nice section about 4in long near the horn with a nice small & smooth radius.

Question #1: What kind of makover should I give it? I'm still a beginner and I don't want to ruin the anvil by being overzealous, and so I was thinking of simply grinding smooth the tip of the horn and leaving the rest as is.

Question #2: It looks like whoever fixed it up welded it up good- what do you people think of using *some* hardy tools on it? I'm thinking it could bear hotcuts and the like- no heavy pounding.

Question #3: What on earth is it? I see a "B" on the bottom row, a "185" followed by what looks roughly like a "k" in the middle row. In the top row, I can see what looks like a "P" followed by something that could be either a "U" or an "O" and at least 3 more letters. I haven't found any markings underneath or on the feet, but I haven't completely cleaned it yet. It seems like 185lbs would be about right for the weight, but for the rest I have no clue.

What do you good people think?

...I may have found true love. That is one big hammer!

Very nice- I'll definitely have to make some of these!

How did you attach the candle base to the stem? It doesn't look welded...

According to Wikipedia, Titanium melts at 3034*F, which is uncomfortably low. I've seen people forging titanium, so you probably get significant warping even if you manage not to melt it.

If you can manage to sell it at a good price, I'd say Tomas Dean's advise is spot on the money (pun intended)!

I have a Fairchild pressure regulator marked .5 to 30 model no. 10 pneumatic. Will this work with propane? It is new.

hey guys I was stuck at my desk job today and found some time to sketch up a concept drawing of my next knife I like most of it but I'm not sure about the black "braid" area but it would be burned in and the surrounding area would have a walnut finish...should I leave it plain? and then the bolster area (its hard to see) but it will be made up of two or three layers of steel that meets the guard...steel will be 5160 with an antiqued vinegar finsh and maybe a hamon if i can pull it off oh and nearly forgot! the area in the middle of the blade is a ounsided narrow fuller that will be ground in so let me know what you guys think all critique is welcome!

Since I don't have a "show" trailer, and some shows/festivals won't allow vehicles/trailers in the vendor's area, I needed a portable vise.

3 major parts, (the wedge, nuts, and bolts don't count), assembles and breaks down with only a small Crescent wrench and small hammer.

Base is 1/2" thick plate from the scrapyard, upright is the shaft from an old warehouse fan, (the base of which is well on it's way to becoming my portable 24" dia. forge.

Looking good!

I've been making tong blanks myself, and I've been having that same problem with hammer marks, so thanks everyone for the tips!

NOT TO USE FLAME when cutting any closed container. Plasma throws bunches of sparks accompanied by vast volumes of air. If there is anything flammable in the container you will not hear it go BOOM, but if your lucky, the neighbors, the fire department, and the hospital may be able to relate the story from their prospective.

Edit: The images are HUGE! How do I fix that? I couldn't find anything in the Help section... :S

Hey guys!

Got the forge body welded up, and I did a fire test yesterday to make sure everything was working. Now I'm just waiting for a dry day so I can install the refractory and get it curing.



I still haven't fine-tuned the mixture, but I want the refractory in before I do that.

More detailed pictures:

The flamestop is a foot-long piece of .25in flat bar cold-twisted about 300*. (I love overly large pipe wrenches ) Worked well, since you can see a piece of paper taped right above it.

I'm really happy with how the doors came out- they're very easy to put on, even one-handed. I will put large wingnuts on to make it feasible when the forge is running full blast.

Sucker heated fast! I had it on for about 50-60s and after it cooled, I noticed these lovely oxidation colours.

Thanks to everyone, a more helpful group of people would be very hard to find!

And lastly- does anyone have any comments/suggestions for this forge?

Cheers,
T.

What they do to make trombones and trumpets (and I'm guessing the other brass instruments) is they mix a lot of soap into water, fill the pipe and freeze it. That way when they bend it, it doesn't collapse.

I don't know if you could nicely twist 1" square tubing cold this way, but I thought this might give you an idea.

Cheers,
T.

Canadian Tires sells some High-Temperature Cement.

Not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for, but: http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/browse/3/HouseHome/1/HeatingAirConditioning/WoodPelletStoveAccessories/PRD~0642704P/Imperial%252BHi-Temp%252BStove%252B%252526%252BFurnace%252BCement%25252C%252B710%252BmL.jsp?locale=en


Cheers,
T.

I'm thinking of doing the very same thing myself- haven't found a good crosspeen hammer locally here in Canada.

The flat side looks a fair bit heavier than the peen side- how's the balance?

Cheers,

T.

Bent- I think I'll want something a wee bit bigger than that for now. If I do get to bladesmithing, I'll definitely keep this in mind!

Thomas- I haven't called any shops. Look in the phonebook for "Heavy Equipment Repair" or something like that?

I got the RR track from family, and the one place I did call works mostly with mild steel. That got me a lot of metal to experiment with, though!

Cheers,
T.

I'm using rail cuz it's what I managed to get!
It's my first foray into metals, all the tools I have and have access to are all for woodworking so I don't think I'd be able to cut a chunk off a dozer blade, if that's what you meant.

If I do find something bigger, I'll definitely switch up.

I just snagged an 80lb stump yesterday, so I'll just lag screw it in, and that should do to get me started.


Thanks again for the input,
T.

Thanks guys, greatly appreciate the help!

I figure I'll just clean it up for now and use it like Phil suggests, and if I need t flatter I'll take a page from BigGun's book and have the college mill it.

Dodge- I totally hadn't thought of the safety issues in treating a piece that big, just the logistical stuff.

I guess I'll stay on the lookout for a farm auction!

Thank you guys very much again- I'll post some pics once it's set up.

Cheers,
T.

Hey guys,

I've finally gotten the time to clean up the propane tank cylinder.

I let all of the propane out, twisted the valve off with a long wrench, filled it with water and then took an angle grinder to it.

I plan to make a base out of 1/8 x 1 galvanized stock and then bolt it on before putting in the ceramic wool. [1] Are there any problems with having holes UNDER the insulation? (I'm thinking the galvanized is far enough so it wouldn't burn.)

The shell I have left is 12in deep and has a 12in diameter. Assuming 2 layers of 1in wool, this would leave me with an inside area of (10-2)*pi*((12-2*2)/2)^2= 402 cubic inches. To start with I would have a door made of soft firebricks, eventually replaced by a door made with the cut off from the tank and attached the same way as Dodge's door.

I seem to remember people quoting numbers like 350in^3 per burner, but I think those were all for venturi burners. [2]Should I keep one big burner as planned, or move to two small/medium ones? Could I temporarily fill the unwanted space with soft firebricks (low thermal mass)? I'd like to be able to achieve welding temp, even if it's just for the small space that wouldn't be filled with firebricks.

[3] Have you guys needed to completely open both ends of your forge? I'm thinking of just making a small 2in x 3in opening at the back, plugged with a firebrick when not in use, but I'm not sure if it would be large enough...

Thanks for all your help,
T.

PS: The mercaptan smell isn't actually that bad. Wouldn't want it next to my pillow, but with 2in of refractory I won't even be able to smell it. Maybe because I flushed it with water then wirebrushed the dickens out of it?

Thanks Phil, that PDF's going to be extremely useful!

Yay, the forum's letting me upload now!


The rail section is about 12in long, but as you can see in "Rail End View", the top is curved and the metal's in pretty bad shape. It would take a LOT of grinding to get it flat. That's why I was thinking of using the flatter, bigger bottom section (see "Rail Bottom View") as the face.

I did a quick model in SketchUp- in that picture, the green is the bucket, the pale grey is the cement and the darker grey is the upside-down rail.

Hope this is enough info, and thanks for the help!

T.

http://ftpforge.chez...acksmithing.pdf
I am not sure what you are explaining. Here is a good description of what you want to do.

If you are using modern rail, it is rather nicely heat treated, and you will not need to re heat treat unless the rail was heated in a fire.

Phil

Hey everyone,

First time blacksmith in Winnipeg (Canada) here, and I'm trying to set up my own shop. I'm about halfway through building a gasser and I've got the tools I need to make the rest of my tools. I just got an old piece of rusted railtrack. I took the grinder to the top face, but it was rounded AND had metal delamination in most corners, so that wouldn't work.

I then took the grinder to the bottom and found it fairly flat, but really pitted. The surface is 12in x 6in in size. After having taken the rust and most high spots off, I started drawfiling it to see what it would give. The result is pretty smooth, but I'd have to keep at it through probably another 5-6 movies to get all of the pits out. Or I might just go to town with the grinder and then just even things up with the file...

Here come the questions:
1- The rail will fit in my forge (barely), so the plan was to heat it to bright red then put it in a barrel of water and move it up and down to get it to harden. After this I'd bake it in the oven at 330*F for about an hour. Is there something that's wrong/could be better with this heat treatment?. (I don't know the exact makeup, but the sparks were exploding enough that I think it is hardenable.)

2- Because it's a rail bottom, there isn't a solid mass of metal under most of the striking surface. Plan is to put the rail in a pail full of cement and sink it until the cement is a bit higher than level with the lower edge of the striking surface. Would this put enough mass underneath, keeping in mind that I'm a complete beginner?

3- Because the metal is thin on the edges (1cm), I'm thinking a backing like I mentioned in Q2 would be pretty much required no matter what I do. Opinions?

I've got something that can be used as a mandrel, so I don't really need a horn, and I plan on making a separate hardy holder (and perhaps sinking it in the same bucket. Maybe it's just a quick, but I like to keep things modular.

My computer decided that it didn't like my camera, so I'll upload the pics from another computer in a few hours.

Thanks,
Toreus


Edit: it gives me an internal server error when I try to upload pics, will try again soon