Mainely,Bob

Clinton,

Did he say how long the hole took to heal? I am torn as I have heard chicks dig scars... But I like seeing. LOL

Brian Pierson

Brian,you could play the odds and just make your first forging a replica of Ned Kelly`s helmet then anyone who runs the hammer could wear that. Just hang it on a hook next to the machine.
You don`t want to ruin that nice new paint by drilling and tapping holes in it now do you? :rolleyes:

I learned everything I know about anvils from Wile E. Coyote. I know that is possible to drop an Acme anvil off a mesa, have the mesa's edge give way, and you will pass the anvil on the way down, and have it land on top of you.

Those cartoons are really old and were originally produced as silent movies in black and white before being remastered.
W E Coyote was actually one of the founders of the mechanical engineering movement,he had a PHD in Cause and Effect.

Stone carvings on ancient temples throughout the world have what was originally thought to be carvings of offerings made on stone altars to the canine gods of the underworld who waited below.We now know these actually depicted coyote receiving the gift of the first anvil from the sky gods(collectively known as the ACME) after the gods of thunder and lightning forged it in the heavens.
According to learned scholars they dropped it on him.

Ask it what year it was born?

Pics and any info as to numbers and markings would help.

Looks like someone felt guilty enough to go back and erase his post.
Let`s hope he felt guilty enough to return the property he obtained by less than honest means.
His Karma will thank him if he did.

Boy, we're sure having fun!

Try this on: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, right? OK, so if you drop an anvil off the roof of your shop, what is the reaction? The equal and opposite reaction is the earth coming up to meet it! Easier to picture with celestial masses, but it applies to any objects with mass. So the earth and the anvil have a mutual attraction and each moves in direct proportion to the others mass.

Maddog started this with his "grain of sand" comment. Where's that guy who wanted his thread to stay on topic?

Now Grant,you mentioned celestial masses yet completely failed to take into account the gravitational pull of the moon as it orbits the earth upon the dropped anvil during the different repetitions needed to verify the experiment.Those forces need to be properly factored into the equation.

Feet? Did someone mention feet?Wind velocity,variances in rotational aerodynamics and drag now need to be factored into the experiment.
We need updated pics to include close ups of the added feet so we can do computer generated wind tunnel flow tests.
Quickly Laoich23,you`re hindering progress here.We need those pics man!!

OK.let me run something by you as long as I have someone who understands and is willing to articulate theory on the line.
One of the standard tests we have for anvils is rebound right?It`s my understanding that rebound is a function of localized deformation and the material`s ability to "push back" like a spring does only on a far more limited scale.We harden the face of anvils in order to take maximum advantage of this quality of the steel.If this resistance to deformation yet ability to "spring back" or rebound is a primary consideration in anvil construction then it seems to me that,within certain limits,an optimum configuration for a built up anvil would be a rather rigid body(we all know this and agree that it`s so) yet wouldn`t the face of the anvil made with material like a fork lift tine better serve these conditions by having a slight crown meeting that body only on the ends and having a body that contains the ends yet allows the face to deform somewhat and then use that energy to "push back" and help move the metal?
I think we talked about the mechanics of this in an old thread on drop forges or presses where rather than having your anvil serve in a static state if you made it work in a dynamic fashion you could accomplish far more work per cycle of the machine.
As long as we are talking about optimizing a blacksmith`s anvil why not talk about making it dynamic instead of static?

You have no idea how pleased I am to have someone take the time to present this in detail like you have but to also be able to track it as well as I have.I attribute that to your presentation rather than my mental capacity because I struggled to graduate high school(it was the 60`s/70`s after all).
Your presentation also turned on the light that illuminated the dynamic anvil post and got me thinking in a different direction.I have yet to decide if that`s a good thing.
Perhaps I should visit the bathroom,look in the mirror and see for myself how much smoke is pouring out of my ears.

You can count on me to grab onto something and run off the end of the earth with it. :rolleyes:

File a horn? We're *BLACKSMITHS*! Gotta use fire somehow in the shaping---how about getting your friends together and forging it to shape?

I`m picturing 3 guys on the end of a pair of 6 foot tongs and a chainfall w/overhead track in your future there Laoich23.
Look at some of the old silent movies on here dealing with wrought iron anchors and such to see what I mean.
That would just be the high point of the year to be part of a project like that!
Closest thing I`ve seen in the present day is Phil`s and James` videos of big stuff being handled by fork lift powered hydraulically rotated tongs under mega hammers.
That sort of stuff will make any blacksmith smile. :)

Sometimes when work become less precious, the creative force can really thrive and the best of ideas come alive.

That is some news/advice that we should all keep in mind.I get some of my best ideas during "play time". :)

Back to wooden shoe suppliers, I ordered mine from Nelis' Dutch Village in Holland, MI.

http://www.bluedelft.com/woodenshoes-plain.html

They were the only place I could find 31CM size, and they were only $56 & change delivered.

Great arch support and super protection from things I drop.<G> Feet stay much warmer than with even good boots, but the snow tends to pack up on the bottoms.

I may or may not put irons on the soles since I work on dirt/cinders rather than concrete.

Spray the bottoms with Pam and the snow won`t stick,seriously.You can wipe them down with olive oil and that works too but it`s not as quick or near as much fun.
You know from from my user name where I live.Trust me,we know snow.

Dang Bob, spent a half hour two fingering a PM to ya and get a member can't receive new messages. Your mailbox snowed in or what? LOL
Ken.

Got the same message when I tried to PM you.That`s why I left the message on your profile.More bugs I suppose,guess we`ll have to just bat the breeze here,we`re all ready off track so drag up a chair.

Just wonderin` if you`re OK,after your one post we didn`t hear from you at all.
Hope I didn`t say anything to set you off.I can be long winded I know.
Maybe Glenn will be around here in a minute to tell us he fixed the glitch and our mailboxes will start workin` again.
How do you like the coffee?

Funny part about it is once you change your eating habits and then try to go back to your old ways your body will let you know just how bad that stuff is.If I tried to eat a Big Mac now and wash it down with a Coke I`d be feeling bad in less than 15 minutes.
Glad to hear things are going well for you.I think you`ll find nothing but improvement in your health and general well being as long as you continue to eat healthy foods and lose weight.
Happy New Year brother!

Are we far enough off-topic yet?

I still haven`t heard any convincing arguments or verifiable facts to prove that vertical is superior to horizontal in a laminated anvil yet so I`m still in favor of wandering further afield if it`ll get us there. ;)

We used to use H13 for the aluminum extrusion dies in a plant I once worked at and they had problems with wear and breakage of some of the dies as they extruded 900+ degree aluminum billets thru them.
The solution we came up with was to clad the sections that wore till they broke and also build up the chokes with stellite weld.We used TIG for the process as it provided more controlled application.
Don`t know if this would help in this case but thought I`d mention it.If you already have tooling that`s failing on you due to wear at less than red heat and are looking for a way to possibly save it I thought it might be an option.

Of course they would be stiffer that way, but wouldn't work very well for their intended use. The small vertical dimension is a design requirement that we don't have with anvils.

I was thinking about this after I posted and remembered an application where they do just that.The trucks that used to collect the scrap from some of the yards I worked at had loaders like the ones some garbage trucks use to lift dumpsters from the front of the truck and raise it overhead to dump behind the cab.Those loaders do much the same work as a fork lift and have the tines in a vertical position.
I can understand where a fork lift is designed to fit the most common denominator,the shipping pallet.Just wondering why if there is such a difference in strength how come industry hasn`t adapted to the stronger(and supposedly safer) application.
After all we went from kegs to boxes to strapped and wrapped pallets didn`t we?

The glue-lam is an excellent example to illustrate my point Grant.Thanks for bringing that up.

This may be an easy way to understand why the laminations should be vertical;

Think of the floor joists in you house, they are on edge and pretty stiff. If you put them flat they would be pretty springy. I know that the flat laminations are welded together but the welds are only on the edge, the piece isn't solid through and through.

It's a matter of "Moment of Inertia"(Section Modulus), you could look it up in your engineering handbook of course.

Just a question Pat.You`re talking about floor joists which are something working over an unsupported distance.I understand the theory and that goes along with the idea of bending a flat bar "the easy way or the hard way".
When the work is fully supported along it`s length like this anvil is on a stump does this still hold true?

I can`t help but wonder why the fork lift tines we`re cutting up aren`t being used in a vertically oriented mode rather than on the flat if there`s a real advantage to having them that way.

I can tell you(from personal experience) that mating the plates as closely as possible(I used bluing to test the fit) then pressing the laminations together and welding while holding them under pressure has direct influence on the action of a laminated or fabbed tool.
Planning a balanced welding sequence so the welding distorts the mating of those surfaces as little as possible helps too as does running short stringers and peening the weld while it`s still hot.If it won`t effect the heat treatment then normalizing can help too.

There`s some real world info that I learned from some very experienced hands that has helped me produce superior items in the past.When I say superior I mean superior to the way I was doing it before I sought out the advice of people with several decades of experience doing just what I was trying to do.
Those men saw what I was doing and only offered advice after I came to them and respectfully asked their opinion.Once the ice was broken they were always available and very helpful in offering their expertise by way of saying things like "Last time I did that I found.." or "If it were me doing it I`d..."
Never once did one of those gentlemen tell me I was doing something wrong.It was always "You might find you`ll have more success if..." or something to that effect.
Now this happened in places like boatyards,factories and the oilfield and I`m not saying humor didn`t come into play.I once asked after running a particularly fine weld bead "What do you think of that weld?" .The reply was"How far back were you standing when you threw it at the work?".
Those men taught me that when you come from a place of respect you get listened to and treated with respect.They also reinforced the fact that respect is a two way street.

I think you`ll find that hammer very useful when you get into cold work or especially non-ferrous work.It`ll also work well for small objects and sheet goods.
Just the thing for small brass or copper rivets, rings and small flowers/roses among other things. :)

Remember that when folks reply to something on the net they are not replying to just the fellow who posted but to all the folks who may read that post now and in the future. Giving tips that might help things out for someone's future project is generally a good thing. Otherwise they could have just sent a PM!

I've done many a project that has gone through a Mark I, II, III, IV,... versions. Usually I'll start with an idea, make it up and use it for a while and figure out what I like/dislike about it and then modify it or make up another one and so on down the line. Never felt that anything I've done couldn't be improved on and have welcomed suggestions over the 30 years I've been smithing.

I like that anvil and think it will be a good worker. I also feel that if you were going to make another, laminating it vertically would be a better way---this is from experience stacking boards up to make an anvil base. Stacking vertically seems to waste less energy in using the anvil than stacking horizontally.

There is a professional powerhammer builder that laminates the powerhammer anvils and he does it vertically too.

What is it about vertical lamination of steel in an anvil that makes it superior to horizontal lamination in objects of the same mass?Without directions to proof we will never know.
If the OP is interested in hearing recommendations or suggestions I`ll be happy to make a few but generally I like to look at what I like as opposed to what I don`t like about someone else`s project.
As long as something isn`t unsafe then there is no absolute "right or wrong" way to approach something there is only "different".
I know of at least 2 people who have laminated the anvils in a horizontal manner on power hammers and then sold those hammers they built for cash money.This makes them "professional" hammer builders.The hammers are still working and performing to the standards expected by the people who bought them.That make them successful as far as all involved are concerned.
Unless someone can point to evidence that is scientifically accepted and documented,can be repeated effectively in the application we are discussing(meaning can we apply it in the real world) then what does it accomplish to muddy the waters with it?

I can`t stop anyone from posting whatever they choose on this site,nor would I want to.What I can hope for is that we will approach things in a supportive and respectful manner.
"Your baby is ugly" helps no one.If you have a suggestion that you think may help improve the child`s life or the life of the parents and you know this suggestion to be effective thru real world experience then point in that direction,but only after you respectfully ask if the parents are open to your input or have asked for your advice.
Seniority and/or experience doesn`t automatically exempt you from exercising courtesy and respect.There`s a huge difference between constructive criticism and criticism.I am disappointed to see some of the more senior members on this site turning more toward finding fault than in being supportive.
I`ll quote my saintly Mother here "If you have nothing good to say then just say nothing at all".

Rant off.Who wants this soap box?

What type burritos you plannin` to cook?I may be over for lunch depending on the type.No beans for me though,unless they`re black beans,then I`ll chance it and bring the Beano.

Oh yeah,cool hood.Fire it up so we can get to cookin`. :)

Just my 2 cents as a 40+ yr welder/fadricator. If ya haven't done it or tried it. Shut up. Just tired off
folks jumping in with NO understanding of what they are saying.I heard, was told I think. I have welded more anvils
and cast iron farm equip than most here. If ya know what ya are doing or are willing to learn go for it. Ya can't screw up scrap. If ya screw it ut up t't
s still only scrap.
Ken.

Wow Drag!
Care to get a cup of coffee,sit a spell and tell us why you happen to be just a little grumpier than usual?
Gotta admit,I also have welded a lot of stuff together that folks told me wouldn`t last.That`s how I know 7018 will work on SOME cast iron.
Just tryin` to unravel who you`re aimin` this latest bit of rough cut wisdom at.
Coffee`s over there,I brewed it up fresh today.Help yourself while I fetch another chair. :)

I was thinking if someone knows how to weld, grind, then why not try to repair an old anvil if it is headed to the scrap yard anyways? It really can not end up in a worse condition than it was in the first place, only better. I like repairing old beat up anvils, just to watch them being converted from a almost scrap anvil into a very good useful tool. I sure do have to admit it does defiantly take a few hours to complete one.

Thanks for getting it Mr Ritter.
Please accept this virtual cigar and step on over to my side of the room :)

Last big fence job I had, I rented a hydraulic PHD. Took advantage of it, dug some extra holes- got them stacked behind my shed. I could probably send a few your way, if you want to cover the postage.

Steve

I`m betting you could fit quite a few holes in a flat rate box.Might want to take him up on that if your PHD fails again. :)

Sorry,thought I was talking to the OTHER professor Powers.
He`s such a kidder!
(please take note of the big grinning smiley face.I`d make it bigger but I`m digitally challenged) :P

SOFA has a number or rebuilt anvils in their club shop that have seen hard use and have been doing great over the last decade or so that I have tracked them.

Note that I usually strongly advise folks not to repair their anvil due to the fact that if they have to ask how they probably are not skilled enough to do it right!

If you have the skills and equipment then resurrecting a badly damaged anvil is a great thing to do! (I've been smithing 30 years now and *I* do not repair my own anvils; I take them to a friend who is an expert and have him do the work (and force him to accept cash for the consumables used!).

To each their own Tommy.I know plenty of old dogs capable of mastering new tricks.
When the alternatives seem to run toward hauling badly damaged anvils to the scrap yard(it happens frequently up here)then I encourage everybody who has the gumption to pick one up to try their hand at it.It`s not as though you`re gonna ruin it any further than it already is now are ya?
If you do then just bring it by and I`ll gouge the mistake off while you count how many times the electric meter goes round so I`ll know what to charge ya.
Whatever keeps the wolf and the scrap man away from the door. :D

Talk to the boys at whatever yard is doing the overhaul/refit work on your vessels.We used to handle everything from 41 ft patrol boats to 110 ft drug interdiction cutters and had access to all sorts of things ranging from tug boat prop shaft pieces to chunks of thick plate.This is in a secondary boatyard in a tourist area (Boothbay Harbor,Maine) so the bigger yards would mean bigger scores I`m sure.Making friends with the guys in the "plate shop"(ship fitters) or the "outside machine shop"(handles power train,steering,winches,gun mounts,etc) would be a good place to start.
There`s a recent thread on fabbed anvils with pics of something that could easily be made by welding a piece of fork lift tine to a tapered section of prop shaft.This would be easier to do than what you propose and give you an anvil that will have a horn and accept tools like a hardy and swages too.
They must work fairly well because the people who are using them ask to buy them and the OP keeps having to make more.
Do a search on "the iron dwarf" as he`s the one making these.