youngdylan

Hey Grant, those chairs looked mighty tempting given my kness.

OK Larry you got me banged to right their, it's a a fair cop ....... I do love old machinery/tools. Metalworking dominates my life (too much at times). I've got a lot a LOT of respect for the engineering pioneers and innovators and what they came up with, especially as South says they didn't have any form of electrically welding, CNC cutting, tool and alloy steel, bandsaws etc etc etc. That said, as you've probably noticed, I love being provacative, playing devils advocate, being tong (pun) in cheek etc etc etc. Provided things don't over heat, I think it's generally a good thing to push boundarys with debate, if we simply accepted the current "wisdom" there'd be no change PERIOD. That said I've also got bucket loads of repect for the experience of a time served 30-40 year on the job guy. The EXPERIENCE of those sort of guys carries much more to me weight than some know it all newbie. All to often I fall in to the later camp. I WOULD generally respect an old anvil but it's a question of where to you draw the line. (I can't believe I'm saying that). That 52 Brooks of mine ain't anything special (as South loves letting me know ) What happens if everyone did what I did, they'd be a lot of people cursing me in 200 years from now. Me? if there's a judgement call to make I'll always go for use over history. If we simply kept things the same that is all that would happen. Those Victorian engineers/innovators we all respect wouldn't have hesitated for a second at chopping up the past. There was a serious point to my post. Grinding a bit of the side to sharpen up a bit of edge is WAY easier than refacing. Also that "bit on end" is incredibly useful. I kinda hope someone will try it and testify. If I were to make/design my own customized anvil I'd have that bit on it. On a London pattern it's a bit of a dead corner that don't get used for much.

Gentlemen, gentlemen ..... gentlemen. ..... Can we please get back to the topic of mutilating anvils

With you on that John. A lot of workers were mutilated because it was cheaper than the cost of anything approaching health and safety. I know a lot of people can be down on that stuff but the more you dig up the past the more you hear of horrific but easily prevented injuries, usually in persuit of another man's profit. I really don't buy into that rose tinted naive romantic notion of the past that a lot of people seem to have.

Guess who ever did the trampling, it was agood job to get into the "zen" of doing it :D

I rest my case:

Not so much "preserve the artifacts" as preserve the past. They keep that place, as much as they can, as it was when it was running. As opposed to being a collection of tools. Having that anvil and other tools outside is part of that past.

Given that my work is all done by me, sledge hammers rarely enter my voocabulary. Given that I work in an extremely cramped work 400 sq ft work shop there is no room to swing one. Given that in that shoebox there are 3 power hammers , 2 elecrohydraulic presses (15T and 30T) 2 flypresses and a treadle hammer, I have no need of a sledge hammer ..... so far :D

Thanks for the compliment. It takes time to get in to the top end market and I'm only just edging towards that.

I would be extremely offended if any one thought I was a traditional smith Funny .... I don't recall discussing sledge hammers ... ever. There's no sledge hammer in my pictures. The long handled ones are used single handedly at different times according to the job at hand I have no beef with the concept behind the Hofi/Haberman/Czeck ..... or my own interpretation that suits ME hammers. There are times when weight matters, 1/2 mv squared is school boy physics; do a bit of research into the propagation of shock waves through differnt materials. Different people prefer different weights of hammers for differnt jobs FACT. I have grave doubts about anyone dictating what weight of hammer is right for an experienced smith

Your words

Oh yeah, that right? You seem to know a lot about hammers, so much so you even know what hammer I use day in day out to earn my living with. My "main" hammer is the one second from the left. Made for ME by ME to what suits ME best not what someone tells ME suits ME best. It's about 3.3lb. The one of the right is a 1.5kg (3.3lb) Peddinghaus, I don't get on with it. The one second from the right was made by Adrian Legge for me after I burn't a hammer in a fire. It is by far the best feeling hammer I have ever picked up, BAR NONE. It was made for me about 8 years ago and as I got more adept at what I do for a living I needed to up the weight to be more productive, hence the ones I made for myself. Since you know so much about hammers, I'm curious as to what you do, got a link to a website, got any pictures of your work?

Hey South, what's your view on the way this anvil is treated, been outside for way more than half a century, and it's in a museum, and it's a rare anvil I suspect when these guys came up with this anvil they weren't to bothered about preserving the past 2 century's designs. I guess their prime motivation was to make an anvil most efficiently suited to their task at hand. I kinda suspect they arrived at this shape by first experimenting and modifying whatever type of anvils they had around. The anvils are at Abbeydal industrial Hamlet near Sheffield that was a water powered scythye making complex in use until the 1930s. They even made their own steel there. Wonderful place http://blacksmith.or...p=1961#post1961

ofafeather, feel free to hijack ...... it's not my thread I hijack things all the time. Thanks for the compliment, here's a thread I posted about that fence http://www.iforgeiro...__1#entry177339

1/2mv squared is basic physics. How the energy travels through the steel is not. You'd get no where upsetting a bit of 40mm round with 3lb hammer. Turning the bar uspide down and upsetting on a big weight of steel gets you somehwere. That block of steel ain't moving very fast. I've no beef with the idea of the Hofi style hammer, made two not a million miles away myself. Note that sometimes the longer handled on is MUCH more appropriate for some jobs. Working on large bits of steel with a lot of radiant heat is one. I certainly don't want to wear a glove on that hand. WEIGHT matters for some jobs, not all .... but punching and upsetting it does. NOT ALL BODIES ARE THE SAME some people have fingers missing, drastically different strenghths in different muscle groups, previous ailments that were nothing to do with smithing. Hey look at the length of the index finger of a low testosterone chinless wonder compared to a high T male (google it) ......

Went for a mooch round the hills on the bike today and stopped of at Abbeydale. Last time i was there was 20 years ago ... that when I still thought Blacksmiths shoed horses. For those that don't know it's a water powered "industrial estate" that used to be in operation until the 1930s making scythes. Well they did go all modern at one time cos they installed a steam engine at some point. I nearly jumped out of my skin when I saw the anvils that Grant refers to If you're interested I've posted more info / images at this place http://blacksmith.or...p=1959#post1959

What Tzonoqua said

This is true but it's nowhere near as simple as this. Physics also means the weight of the head affects how far into the metal the energy is transferred. You simply wont be able to pentrate as deep with a light hammer. Too light a hammer is almost totatlly useless when upsetting regardles of the speed. All you'll do is peen over the top few mm. There is no way a 25lb litle giant could work the same stock as a 5cwt massey. Even if the the LG were speeded up many times over it could NOT work the same size stock a 5cwt even if that were slowed down many times. Right hammer for the right job, this is the WEIGHT of the hammer, the length of the shaft, the way it is used and the shape of the faces. There is also the tremendous variation in individual smiths bodies to consider. There is NO one size does all hand hammer, experienced smiths often have a collection of many hammers with possibly a few being favoured more than other.

Thanks Harold, great compliment there but to be honest I'm really not qualified and would be totally put in the shadows by some off the people here and elsewhere. Nothing I do is really very innovatitve, I just hoover up ideas, usually from others and I'm still on the steep part of the learning curve. Maybe in 10 or 15 years!!! I do however know another expert on this site who knows bucket loads about powerhammers and forging etc and I keep saying he HAS to right a book. PS, I just find flypresses wonderfully adaptable tools.

MOTORBIKES and boy oh boy do they get chopped around ..... just a little bit. Can't see anyone ever making a 1973 Triumph Trident T150V ever again.

I guess you know my answer. USE IT. You're do if for a living and know what not to do to abuse its so it would probably be many years before you began to wear down the face or chip the edges. It's an anvil, it was made with the sole purpose of being POUNDED on. Any wear you cause would only add to it's pedigree of being used, that character adds value to me. Hey you guys love our old crumbly castles, I guess most of you would rather have them that way than all lickity spit and new. . When I used to make jeweller, customers often wanted that careworn look that only come with years of wearing. I don't think I passed ANY comment about collecting. I think most working smiths "collect" without thinking. I've well over a half a dozen angle grinders and more dynabrade belt sanders. I kinda yustify it to myself that it's more productive to have lots of tools set up and ready to use rather than constantly swapping over contact arms. Reality is I'm just smitten with air tools and always want more. I've even got a 2HP one that runs a 2" wide belt and DRINKS air. I just wanted to have one, haven't used it on a job ....... yet. Took a lot of looking on ebay to find one but it's Murphy's law that that the guy I got it off was selling a whole batch of the motors for them. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/DYNABRADE-/220647807812?pt=UK_Air_Tools_and_Compressors

by your logic should old mechanical power hammer not be modified in any way and be hooked up to a line shaft powered by steam engines?

They're no where near as common over here as the normal throat ones and generally go for a lot more, somewhere around £300-£400 on e bay compared to say £50 to £200 for normal ones. They are WELL worth the extra. Photo shows another rare type. I'd say if you've got the space and the price is right get both as soon as you see one. They're so versatile and having both types means you can do SO much more thatn the "normal" ones. There's also a tall throat variant I'm going to get one day. Flypresses are definitely in my top ten favourite tools. I could see this type being VERY useful for armour

If you can, try finding a "deepthroat" flypress. I'd be lost without mine

Amen