Need Help on a Detail Development

[Ed Thomas]

Hollis:

VERY nice. Thanks for sharing that.

Without altering the back to leave space, I don't think you can properly collar the support. But a rivet would be extra nice.

I like your solution for the 't'. My only reservation would be if this bracket is viewed equally from both sides.

The theme would make terrific shelf brackets.

[Ralph]

Ed it WOULD take a VERY COmplex collar. and since collars are a weakness of mine. It would be beyond my skills. 8)

[HWooldridge]

Yes, you can see the MIG dots on the other side - they are small but I didn't try to hide them. I also thought about drilling a hole in the frame and welding from the back but that would not have worked on the top fastening. If I was of a mind to do so, it would be pretty easy to install rivets now and grind the welds away but of course the finish would need to be redone. This was an exercise so maybe I'll do rivets on the next one.

Not that it applies in traditional work, but I was in an art gallery last week that carried quite a bit of iron and the appearance of welds was evident everywhere. Almost everything was done cold and the only hot work was mashing a few pipe legs on tables. Very little texture, lots of glass and shiny brass or stainless knick-knacks welded on here and there. The dealer said the stuff was flying out of there.

[Ralph]

Sir I think that the job was and is WELL done. Dawn has already said that I WILL be doing something simular for her, in the future.

Now about teh braid I assume this was a die? PWR hammer? Or hand work?

[HWooldridge]

Ralph,

I started another thread on the tools.

[Strine]

The end result is very nice. The detail is particularly professional like. Well done Hollis. I'm heartened to see that the use of the Mig has caused a little angst and the use of a different fastening system is being investigated. For my 2 bob I was thinking a 'collar' could be punched out of the backing plate. I suppose it would be only half a collar!

[HWooldridge]

Thanks to all for the kind words.

I'm nothing if not open minded and was also studying on a collar since there has been some good discussion on fastening methods. I think it would be much more work than a simple rivet because the frame is 1-1/4 and the scroll is 5/16 square (forged from 3/8 round). If I had to do a collar, I believe I'd punch two rectangular holes in the frame and push a separate "U" over the scroll and thru the holes, then fold down the ears in back. Would have to relieve a depression so it would sit against the wall but that would not be too tough.

I'd like to hear other ideas on collaring methods.

[Ed Thomas]

Hollis:

I don't think I'd go with a collar. It probably doesn't matter since this is a candle holder. But the structural purpose of the duo-foil (???) is to support the top bar... to keep it from sagging. Traditional joinery is really just that -- structural joinery. A collar would let the support member slide up and down, which defeats the practical point of having it there. A rivet is more appropriate. This would be a bigger issue for shelf brackets where there would be a real load.

Besides, you never know when your wife is going to try to put a 600# candle on it. :mrgreen:

You can decorate the head of the rivet if you feel like it's too plain.

[Swamp Fox]

You can drill the bracket and plug weld the element into place. It would get rid of the mig tracks, let the element float, and not interfer with the bracket laying flat against the wall.
Or counter sink the hole on the back side of the bracket,and pein the rivet to fill the hole then grind flat.
Or use a close fit hole, heat the bracket and element, and insert a cold rivet. When the metal cools, it should lock the rivet into place. Use a little ox/ac local heat on the rivet and pein it into a countersunk hole, then add a little decoration on the rivit head to make it look pretty. On the top joint you can make a second head on the rivet so it will show. I think they said to use one and one half times the diameter of the rivet to form the head. A set tool would form a better head than just the hammer.