John-S Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Good morning, I'm brand new here and jumping in with both feet but hoping not to annoy anyone. I have done some searches on old posts but get the impression that I don't know enough to know what to search for. I have a Buffalo rivet forge with a hand cranked blower. The blower doesn't have any number or model info on it, but it does say Buffalo Forge, and USA, and "Bufco" on the blower cover. This blower has an outlet of about 1.25 inches and the fan housing is about 7" in diameter. I've been using this thing off and on for about 15 years and it has worked very well. About a year ago it started making a "ting" sound every once in a while. Apparently a fan blade hitting a rivet. About 6 months ago, one direction of turn (there's no indication which way if either is "correct") began making that sound continually and I stopped turning it that direction. Last week the other direction started being hard to turn and making a rattling sound. I took it apart and discovered that the shafts were moving a long way. In one direction they would pull the fan blade up against the rivets, in the other it appears the gear teeth were touching the sheet metal housing, though that is harder to be sure of. There are little washers which appeared to center the shafts and some of these were visibly worn almost hollow. In a couple of places it appeared that a washer was entirely missing. I don't know what those washers are made of. They're not metal and I doubt they're plastic. I replaced several of them with similar rubber washers which fit pretty well but I was unsure of the original thickness. Now the noises are gone. BUT, the thing is much harder to turn than I think it should be. Can anyone offer me any advice here? Does anyone know how many washers there were, how thick, and where they belong? I'm afraid my gear terminology is not what it should be, but the smaller gears are cut in a kind of spiral form which contributes to the movement of the shafts. Does this imply that the shafts are supposed to move? If so, how can I determine how far they're supposed to move. Obviously not so far as to strike the rivets.... Any comments, suggestions, or advice would be much appreciated. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 I would try brass. Most things that are metal to metal usually use brass. NOT always but, it does work well. I have a blower like you are talking about but, don't have it here at the moment. If I go over to my other place this weekend I'll try and look to see what it has. I'd be safe to say they are brass though. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 Welcome to IFI by the way. Great place to learn just about anything you want to know about metal work. Good bunch of folks all around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-S Posted December 11, 2011 Author Share Posted December 11, 2011 Thanks. I'll try some brass washers and play around with guessing how many and where. Do you (or anyone) know why the small gears are cut diagonally? (sorry I don't know the proper terminology) it looks to me like if they had been cut perpendicularly the gears would run straight and the shafts wouldn't shift around. There must have been some reason for it and it seems to me that if I completely immobilize the shafts with washers it will defeat whatever that purpose was. On the other hand, if I let it move too much things impinge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-S Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 I thought I'd update this for future reference. I found that I couldn't easily buy brass washers of the right size around here, they'd have to be ordered. They also cost a dollar a piece. So, I bought some nylon washers of the diameter, but too thin. I took some 1970s pennies and drilled holes in the center with my drill press then polished them with 600 grit sandpaper. The pennies provided the thickness and the nylon washers the slipperiness and exact fit. I could see when I took it apart again that the rubber washers were deforming and causing problems. I still didn't know where the washers needed to be, so I started by shimming the fan blade away from the housing. Once that was centered I guessed and re-assembled the rest. It was tightly bound, wouldn't turn at all. Interestingly I could turn the fan blade and the crank would turn, but not the other way around. I took it apart and tested the mesh and movement of each pair of gears and they were all fine. I tried again, still bound. Then I took it apart and moved two washers from the left (fan blade direction) to the right (handle direction) side of the gears. That worked and now the thing is working great. I don't really understand what I did so I can't offer much advice to others in a similar situation other than to begin with the fan blade and keep trying until it works. Cleaning it thoroughly helps too so you can see what you're doing. It does still shift back and forth when you turn it one way or the other, but the "slop" is much reduced. I'd estimate it at about 3/16 of an inch. I hope this will help someone in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajajoaquin Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 You could move the fan blades because it's probably a 30:1 ratio. Cranking the handle increases the speed of the fan blades by a factor of 30, but reduces the torque by the same amount. Moving the fan blade, you multiply the torque applied by 30 and overcame the friction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BM454 Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I'd think a little slop is to be expected. Any idea when it was built or how hard it was used in the past? Gears wear with time. I'm guessing you could probably shim it some more to get most of it out. If it was not causing problems I'd just use it, unless you have nothing else to do but get it perfect. Glad the harder washers worked out for you. Rubber is not really a good washer or shim on something that has moving parts. I'd be safe to say as long as you use proper lubrication in it, the blower will last many years to come. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-S Posted December 16, 2011 Author Share Posted December 16, 2011 I think it is designed to have some slop in it, but I could be wrong. That kind of angled, (helical??) cut to the gears combined with no keys or anything to positively hold the shafts in place, makes me think that whoever designed it wanted it to shift back and forth. Why, I can't imagine. I could have pretty easily shimmed out the rest of the slop but I honestly thought it would bind up if I did. I don't know its history before about 15 years ago. In that 15 years it has had brief periods of heavy daily use interspersed with years of storage. According to this site: http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=129 Buffalo started making forges in 1878 so that's the oldest it could be, and I got it in 1995 so those are hard limits on how old it is. The fact it is made of wood, brass, cast iron, inclines me to believe an earlier part of that period, but those weird non-metallic washers give me pause. Then again, it now has washers which positively date to the 1970s... I'm guessing WWII era. I found this thread just now which is on the same topic, more or less. Thanks for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewed Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 As far as I can guess ( having what I think is the same blower ) the gears were cut that way so they would move one way or the other so the shafts would ride on the little pins on the ends of them. But that is just my guess. I'm in the process of trying to shim mine a bit to cut down on the noise. I don't think it is going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HWooldridge Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Helical gears run more quietly than spur types and are used to reduce vibration and noise at higher speeds - an obvious plus in a blower application. Spur gears mesh "all at once" when the teeth touch; helixes slide together more gently. Those blowers with the outlet centered to fan hub can be cranked either direction; those that are tangential to the periphery of the fan are designed to run in one direction only and will put out a great deal more blast when the fan is turning the right way. The washers may have been bakelite or leather; I have seen both but do not know if they were OEM or replacements. The best guidance on shimming is to use common sense (as you did) and make sure it's not jammed up tight - but I would say 3/16" end play is way too much. Something around .030 or so would make more sense to me. When the gear case contains oil, the washer also helps to act as an oil seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFCO Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Buffalo Forge Co is now called Howden North America and ther is an office in Williamsville,NY. The machine tool division was sold in the 90's and I believe the company now handling that is called Buffalo Machine Tool in Lockport, NY. I know they handle drill presses and iron workers, but I don't know if they still handle the forge you have -but they might at least have a manual. If they cant help you, you can try calling 716-817-6919. He doesn't handle these forges now, but he was service manager for many years (still works there) and he knows a lot about most products that we sell or have sold. Good luck, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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