Mike gets it...

[son_of_bluegrass]

Insomnia post here

As a person who looks at the books of a small business almost every day I can tell you it may look like that from the outside but this is not the case most of the times. I can't talk about wallmart or other big companies because that's a world that I don't move in and I have never looked at their books. I never shopped at a wall mart but I'm a little eccentric anyway. I agree with you if your not getting what you need or even what you want walk. But my next thought is if you cant find what you need go and make it for your self, its my natural inclination and how I was raised. But lets say you try all your options and something teen an hour is all you can find its a living wage but barely. That's all that the boss can afford to stay competitive and he needs you to bust your hump to keep the doors open or make it worth it to him or her. Also its a lot of effort to go through the trouble of having employes there are lots of rules and regulations, people get sick, have problems, there kids get sick etc. No one hands you a book when you open your door that says here is everything you need to know to have employees legally, morally and practically. You stumble along making mistakes and learning lessons. If a business is not always looking at the bottom line the owner is a poor business owner. There are constant expensis that need to be watched and keep under control. Everything from workers comp to the cost of steel, to hand soap the workers don't see this. Are last steel order was 10% higher than last time that pinched my budget I wish I could pay so and so a higher wage. I cant say I haven't had that thought more than once. I have had a lot of trouble finding skilled employees. I always felt if I could get top workers I could truly flourish but Its been very hard to find them and even harder to find the money to retain them. If only my customers were willing to pay me more.

I understand a lot of that. But let me give you my experience. I got out of the army where I did carpentry and got a job as a trim carpenter. I was paid piecemeal (for those who don't know that means I was paid based on what I produced) and averaged between $11 and $12 an hour. I could make it on that. The guy I worked for, when times were good, bought a boat on credit, and new cars, house etc. He was living beyond his means and when times got lean he decided paying me wasn't a priority so I left. I now had a few years experience trimming houses and got a job being payed hourly at $10 an hour. That here is just about the starvation point (that is the minimum needed to pay for rent, vehicle, utilities etc and still be able to eat regularly). During that time the cost of houses went up, so I looked into why houses cost more. Some of it was increases in materials. Some of it was more profit. Even though there was more profit in building a house, those who did the work were being paid less, sometimes actual pay, sometimes only after adjusting for inflation. That profit was mostly going into the pockets of developers.
There are some business owners who pay as much as they can. In my experience there are more who pay as little as they can.

I'm trying to get my own thing going on a shoe string. It's a one-man operation and the biggest problem I'm finding is convincing customers to buy at a price I can survive on.


ron

[Timothy Miller]

I understand a lot of that. But let me give you my experience. I got out of the army where I did carpentry and got a job as a trim carpenter. I was paid piecemeal (for those who don't know that means I was paid based on what I produced) and averaged between $11 and $12 an hour. I could make it on that. The guy I worked for, when times were good, bought a boat on credit, and new cars, house etc. He was living beyond his means and when times got lean he decided paying me wasn't a priority so I left. I now had a few years experience trimming houses and got a job being payed hourly at $10 an hour. That here is just about the starvation point (that is the minimum needed to pay for rent, vehicle, utilities etc and still be able to eat regularly). During that time the cost of houses went up, so I looked into why houses cost more. Some of it was increases in materials. Some of it was more profit. Even though there was more profit in building a house, those who did the work were being paid less, sometimes actual pay, sometimes only after adjusting for inflation. That profit was mostly going into the pockets of developers.
There are some business owners who pay as much as they can. In my experience there are more who pay as little as they can.

I'm trying to get my own thing going on a shoe string. It's a one-man operation and the biggest problem I'm finding is convincing customers to buy at a price I can survive on.


ron

Your right there are crooks out there too. I have found a lot of people have this idea that they are entitled to a certain lifestyle and will walk over anyone they need to to get it. I stay away from that kind when ever possible, I don't want to add any energy to their game. I want to forge iron first and foremost getting to do that every day is reward enough for me my toys are tools. But look at it this way you now have a trade and you can extend out from doing trim. I think a lot of the reason trades people are under paid for there labor is because the cost of entry is very low. In other words you don't need a expensive education to do it. You just need to know how to do the job and have the tools to do it. So that's a few years experience a truck of some kind and a couple thousand in tools. One should be legal to work in the country have, Insurance and a contractors as well. You can command higher wages if you have that. Often times having a professional not necessarily new looking truck with your name on the side helps too. Having a masters degree in home construction wouldn't be of much value if your bid wasn't competitive. Even though the house you built was better constructed and looked good. Sadly few really care that much about real quality. Most of the stuff most people have is disposable junk only a few years from the land fill. I was speaking to one of the biggest high end builders in my region about quality, he said its not so much about doing the best job its about getting it done on time and meeting the budget. That fact that your competter doesn't really know how to forge a scroll properly and his gate is going to have serious rust problems in a few years are secondary. I take that all in stride and do the best job I can within time and budgetary constraints and I will not do second rate work knowingly. If someone is not willing to pay you what you need to do the job tell them you can use cheaper materials or use glue instead of nails. That tends to steer things the right way. Some people really don't have the money as well. Never act like you need the job act like you could take it or leave it. People will take you more seriously. Getting a job you loose money on is worse than not getting the job.

[Dillon Sculpture]

I think many in the building trades are running scared right now doing anything they can to hold on, most have folded. Although as I brought up earlier there is a hugh cultural intrigue with people who build stuff, Dirty Jobs, American Chopper, even cooking! Culturally simple work has become praised as high art, my point about changing a tire. I don't think this will fall off either, for there are fewer and fewer people with the knowhow especially in the field of smithing. I think for the most part you just have to know how to tap into the $, I'm not saying its easy, luck, skill and a lot of hard work is essential but I feel optimistic about the future of our work.