Fishtail scroll problems

[easilyconfused]

I've been having some problems with my fishtail scrolls. I don't have any pics of the problems and don't have time for trial-and-error learning while I'm at universtity so I figured I'd get some ideas for the next time I'm home.

Anyways, I've been consistently getting a bulge in the middle of th curl so that the ends pinch in and the middle bulges out. Any suggestions on how to reduce this other than better hammering?

[HWooldridge]

I think I understand your problem. If you make a small V-notch in the center of the fishtail before beginning the scroll, it will roll up more smoothly. Hope that makes sense - if not, I may be able to find a pic somewhere.

[Ed Thomas]

E. Confused:

I suspect that if you look at your fishtail from the end (like looking at the face of a snake) you would see that the middle of the fishtail is higher than the sides. In other words, to keep the end of the fishtail straight, you forged out the two sides and left the middle thicker. This is a perfectly valid and aesthetic shape. However, when you bend metal, the thinner part bends more easily than the thicker section, and the hotter part bends more easily than the cooler part.

So you are doubly cursed because the thinner sides of the fishtail heat up more quickly than the middle, and are hotter when you pull the piece out of the fire. Now the sides are many times softer and more flexible than the middle part. When you start the scroll, the sides bend easily while the middle does not.

One fix is to forge the end of the fish tail flat all the way across. Then when you heat it in the forge, it will heat evenly which means it will bend evenly. You will have to be attentive to forging the end straight, but it is not difficult.

The other fix is to make the fishtail with the varying thicknesses to give it depth and character as you probably already are. When you put it in the forge, bring the heat up more slowly and let the middle section come up to the same heat as the edges. Provide a steady even air supply and back off a bit as it is nearing a yellow forging heat. Now all you have to deal with is the varying thicknesses, not the uneven heat. To make it move evenly into a scroll, forge the bends almost completely by striking the thicker middle section. The ears will follow with very little adjustment.

There is a good chance you are working at too low a heat. If you get the whole section up evenly to a bright yellow... practically welding heat... the difference in resistance between the edges and the middle is reduced considerably.

[Chris Pook]

I was taught by european smith to use a halfround swage block and to slightly concave the scroll into a sorta c shape like you would a c shaped chisel, when you roll it up it then flattens out.

[Strine]

It's hard to imagine the problem without a picture. This bulge? Is it mountainous or a gentle roll over. When scrolling up the fishtail what about doing it over a waisted pipe ie skinnier in the middle than the ends or something so that the bulge bulges on the inside of the scroll not the outside. The bulge would drop into the waist of the pipe.

Also it is not so difficult with practice to get an even section across the end of the fishtail with a straight or cross pein.

and don't have time for trial-and-error learning

This might be your biggest hurdle. Ever tried winning a footy match without training?

[easilyconfused]

Thanks for the quick responses. I'll have to try them and see how they work. I remember reading about the chisel trick a while ago now that I'm reminded about it. It isn't a big bulge and doesn't look bad. I'm probably the only one that notices it, but if you're going to do something, try and do it better the next time.

Quote:
and don't have time for trial-and-error learning

This might be your biggest hurdle. Ever tried winning a footy match without training?

I figured that this would speed up the trial-and-error learning. And yes I have won without training. I made it to provincials in track without having any training other than the occasional footrace against a cow heading for a gate:)

Thanks,
Ryan