New to Blacksmithing

[Bwilloughby]

Hello everyone,

I am new to the Blacksmithing Trade and I hope to get a fresh start. I will be at the Madison Conference this year to pick up some tools and training. I am a Navy Veteran, 32 years old, and have started learning about the ins and outs through books. There is really no one here in this area where I can apprentice but my wife and I are moving to North Carolina in July.

I have degrees and years of study in Electronics but have since been burnt out on the field(seems to be getting flooded and boring). I used to work for a DoD contractor but have since left that job to prepare for our move(The wife makes enough money as a RN).

I hope to be able to learn from some of the more knowledgable people here and be able to share with many my knowledge of what I know to anyone who may need help.

Bruce

[Ed Thomas]

Bruce:

Are you the same Bruce that posted a few times on the ABANA site?

You might want to check here:

http://magichammer.freeservers.com/abana_image_map.htm

and see if there is any group near enough to you to contact. There are many blacksmiths in both FL and NC, so you should be able to to contact a group near you.

I can attest that there is life after the Navy, digital technology, DOD, and education. You have already secured the most important element -- a working spouse. :P

[anon_smith]

Bruce:

Make sure and sign up for one or two "green coal classes" at Madison. I think I'm helping out at one on Friday.

Contact me off list (mobjak@yahoo.com) if you wish. I'm near Charleston SC.

[Bwilloughby]

Bruce:

Are you the same Bruce that posted a few times on the ABANA site?

Yep same guy, I did a google search for Blacksmithing forum and found this site

heheh The working spouse was a hard find though she loves her job and taking car e of people.

Bruce:

Make sure and sign up for one or two "green coal classes" at Madison. I think I'm helping out at one on Friday.

Contact me off list (mobjak@yahoo.com) if you wish. I'm near Charleston SC.

Unfortunatly I will not be able to be ther etill late friday, my wife thought she would like to go with me to see whats happening, and she has to work all day friday, But I will be there Saturday. I hope to get to meet some people that work in the areas I live and will be living in.

I am not hard to recognize. My whole left are is Tattoed and I have long red/black hair tied in a ponytail sort of a top knot thing.

Do we get name tags "Hi my name is ----"

I am currently putting finishing touches on my forge burners, I am useing the Ron Reil burner style, seems easy enoug to put together and tune. http://www.frontiernet.net/~gnreil/burner.gif
I have a couple of questions about welders if anyone is willing to give me some advice.
I am more than likely gonna do drive way gates and entry gates. Seems that forge welding some of those peices will be out of the question, what sort of welder should I use that would best suit this sort of work, I am pretty proficient in arc welding, but have never gave wire fed a try.
Should I try to forge weld and rivit as much as I can to make it as authentic as I can (if this matters)

[Ed Thomas]

Bruce:

This is what I replied to the same question you posted on the ABANA site:

---------------
"... for this type of work" you use a forge, not an electric welder. The look and feel of forged metal work is markedly different from fabricated work, and combining the two techniques shouldn't be done casually. When forging iron, there is a mechanical joint or forge-weld solution for every instance you might be tempted to use an arc weld. Study current GOOD ironwork by truly good artisans and read lots of books. Always look for ways to improve the integrity of what you make.
----------------

It is still true, even several days later and on a different forum.

The path to learning good forged architectural ironwork is worth pursuing, but it is not a short or easy one. If you leap right out there and try to find all the shortcuts and fabricated substitutes... that is what your work will look like... a big mess of shortcuts and fabricated imitations. You should take the time to learn the difference. Then if you choose to do tasteful fabricated work, CALL it that... but NOT "hand-forged wrought iron". It is a disservice to the craft and to those that have spent so much time trying to educate the public on the difference.

You should not pass up that offer by Anon-smith. (mobjak). He is among the most skilled in fundamentals you will probably ever meet. Plus, he will steer you well on how to dress right. :shock:

[Bwilloughby]

Ed Thanks SO much! that was one of my on going thoughts I have had, How do they make such beautiful work? And you have answered that. I will follow your example and take to forge welding. My ability to learn thru doing is almost like a gift.

You should not pass up that offer by Anon-smith. (mobjak). He is among the most skilled in fundamentals you will probably ever meet. Plus, he will steer you well on how to dress right.

Understood, I just spoke to the wife about her getting That friday off, or me going up alone. though what do you mean about my stye in dressing 0.o; have you seen pictures of me? :mrgreen:

[anon_smith]

Bruce:

I'm pretty easy to spot as well. Like you, my hair is two colors, brown and grey.

Ed gives me waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much credit. I'm just a beginner, only a 1.875 (on a scale of 1-10). He's at least a 6.5. :D

[Ed Thomas]

Bruce:

Of course Mr. Anon-Smith is exaggerating my worth and downplaying his own. He has been a "beginner" for about 30 years, and once upon a time made his living at forging. Successfully.

If you are able to attend a workshop by him, make sure you push and pull your way right to the front and grab a hammer and anvil. There is no better way to learn than to do the forging actively under the watchful eye and tutelage of someone like Anon. Too often, folks think they can watch and learn, but once they get home 90% of what they were taught has been gone for the last 2 days, and the remaining 10% doesn't make any sense.

Of course if you just want to SAY you are a blacksmith, that is a different story. Stand in the back, smile knowingly with all the other spitters and chewers, make clever remarks, and buy some old ironwork to prove you are an expert. That does just fine for a lot of folks.

The best way to get good fast is to pay attention, pester the experts, take advantage of working sessions by generous people like Anon....and practice practice practice. And when you were done with that, practice some more.

At some time, we were all beginners. Except for Irnsgrn -- he was born with a hammer in one hand and a welding rod in the other. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

[Bwilloughby]

The best way to get good fast is to pay attention, pester the experts, take advantage of working sessions by generous people like Anon....and practice practice practice. And when you were done with that, practice some more.

On that remark if and when I get under your skin from all the questions I willbe asking I only hope you will remember you told me to.

No, I don't want to just call myself a Blacksmith, I have seen some much work that is just incredible and I feel this is my calling. I told Mr. Anon that I didn't want to be in his way as I am a very novice. and I didn't want to slow him down with his class. I have no correct hammer skills yet, I thought coal came in one color Black not green too o.0; , But if thats what you recommend then I will do just that, I will register for that class and try my hardest to get in ahead of any groups.

Will you be at the conference?
Who else might be there that posts to this forum?

As far as practice goes I will have days upon days to hone my skill, I am jobless wanting to make this a living, if it's thru selling Sconces, coat hangers, or blades. I have set my sights on Entrance gates and drive way fences( I may have said this already) I hope with time and practice, I will be as good as the folks who post here.

One more thing I'm a bit confused, I am looking now at the Registration form but i don't see anything about that course on Friday. What should I be looking for? I will fll this out and mail it in tomorrow. I will join ABANA tonight online :)

[Ed Thomas]

Bruce: All good blacksmiths that I know welcome questions as long as they come from a sincere desire to learn the craft. I challenge you to try to get under our skins here! 8)

I have never gone to that conference. I usually head north to the Ohio conference (Quad State) every Fall, and attend a handful of events closer to home for me. The timing for the Madison event will always conflict with obligations I have here. But I'm sure it is a great one to start you off.

Here is the deal -- the absolute BEST time to stand at an anvil with a seriously competent blacksmith such as anon_smith is when you are just starting out, as you are. It is so much more efficient to be shown how to hammer safely and intelligently, how to control the fire, how to think of the iron and get it to do what you want it to do...etc., etc. ... from the very beginning. BEFORE you develop bad habits.

Like every great skill, modern forging is based on centuries of experience. Why not take advantage of that? Would you try to master the violin to play in Carnegie Hall without using a teacher? This really isn't any different. Except there aren't any strings on the anvil. And you don't use a bow. And you don't have to read music. And the violin isn't as dirty. This is falling apart pretty fast. :roll:

[Bwilloughby]

Ed: Thanks for the push, I will be there on Friday morning, if I have registered in time is another thing, I will call Karen Wheeler in the morning and see if I can still make the class.

Thanks for the analogies, I will keep them in mind.

[anon_smith]

Bruce:

don't listen to what Ed says, he's all wet. The words "seriously competent" have never been applied to my blacksmithing skill.

[anon_smith]

Bruce:

You had commented that you are building a gas forge. Gas forges have their place. Is there a reason you don't want a coal forge? A coal forge is more versatile. There are many things I make that I could only get in the largest gas forge, and these are not especially large items.

Ed had poo poo'd your question about welders. He did this because he's trying to encourage you to learn traditional methods. But, I think a welder has a place even in the traditional shop. I use a stick welder and a TIG welder all the time for making jigs and fixtures (and gas forges!). They are indispensable for this. With regard to what to get. Ed would tell you if you were only going to have one, to get an O/A torch, cause you can not only weld, but you can cut and heat as well. I would tell you to get a stick welder, cause you can weld more different kinds of material (especially if it's AC/DC). With regard to brand, stick with Miller, Lincoln, or Hobart.

[Bwilloughby]

I had only thought of a gas forge to start as I will be looking for a place to set up shop and don't know what sort of space or ventilation is available yet. BUt I have been giving a caol forge some thought as of late.

Thanks for the heads up on the welders. I had thought to maybe have awelder on hand for tooling fixtures.

Thanks

[HWooldridge]

Coal is very versatile and has been the standard for a long time. You can do anything with a coal forge but some types of work will not fit in a gas forge - something to consider depending on what you plan to make.

I agree completely with acquiring an O/A torch and I would get a MIG before a stick or other type only because I think it's easier to learn. I taught welding basics to all four of my sons and the MIG was the easiest to master. Only one boy wanted to go on to other stuff so I taught him stick. He's in college now and finds the skill comes in handy quite often.

The nice thing is that TIG and stick use the same type of power supply so that's a plus for the small shop and TIG will weld anything.

[anon_smith]

I know that everyone has an opinion, and I agree that it's easier to learn MIG than stick, TIG, or O/A but, it's a royal PIA to change from a mild wire to something like stainless as an example. I'd also rather not store a half used spool of wire when I've changed it out to weld something else (can you say "rats nest"?). If you are ONLY going to weld mild steel, then MIG is fine. If you are going to weld other materials, want more tensile strength, or do any hardsurfacing, I like a stick machine better.

One other thing I have to say about MIG welding, I've seen more bad MIG welds from self taught welders. The most common mistake I've seen is lack of penetration.