Gravydavy

The stand is a pedestal design with the 4" pipe being vertical under the center of the anvil to minimize flex under hammer blows. The base is still to be determined depending on what I can drag out of the metal pile in the woods. If I expected to use it on a hard surface, I would give it three legs because a tripod rarely rocks. But I mostly expect for it to live outside on on a gravel surface, so having a broad footprint to minimize sinking into the ground seems to be more of a priority. I'm leaning toward a fairly large plate with diagonal bracing, but I'm open to other ideas. I've even considered a concrete-weighted base. I'm open to suggestions. BTW, the stand project is shoving my nose into the fact that my welding skills are far beyond rusty. I definitely won't be posting any closeups of my weld beads.

Thomas, as it happens, I am a mechanic (retired) and have laying around a broken semi-floating truck axle with a nicely domed end that I eventually intend to cut down for a forming stake. I do want to be able to do some actual blacksmithing, so I'll stick with the Fisher rather than swapping for a smaller anvil.. I also have some jackhammer bits that should make nice tools. I've already made a small ~1lb hammer from one piece. Unfortunately, the scrapyards in my town don't seem to be interested in selling to individuals. I do know some heavy truck mechanics who might let me dig through their scrap pile when I get to the point of needing more material. Goods, that is very cool that you got to do that with your son. I'm a bit jealous of him! I will likely make a hardy block/anvil for the brass/copper work and put a hole in my workbench to hold it as well (if I ever actually get back into that - it's been nearly 45 years). In the meantime, I'm welding up a fairly sturdy stand out of 4" sch 40 pipe, 1/2" plate and 2"x1/4"square tubing for the diagonal bracing. I will solidly secure the anvil to it. Should be plenty stiff for the lighter work that I anticipate doing, and I can always move it with the tractor.

Thanks!. I'll keep my eyes open for a suitable block.

The last few replies have been helpful and gave me the sort of practical information I was looking for to guide me. I am convinced to leave it alone. At some point I will likely find a more suitable anvil/block for work that calls for a flat, smooth surface. Thanks to all, even those who got angry at me. It shows that you care about these things. Now, back to making the stand...

Boy, this has gone sideways, and I have definitely contributed to it. Please let me try again: One part of my question amounts to "How much could I sell it for on this forum?". (Note: I'm not looking to sell it, just trying to get an idea of what it's worth to help me decide how to proceed toward having the tools that work for me). Does $200-$300 seem reasonable? That would be my guess. The other part was "If it's not worth much, and it's not rare, is there a good reason why I shouldn't mill/dress the top?) The universal response has amounted to "Don't you dare do that!" OK, I get that it's agreed that I shouldn't do that, but I'm still not sure why. On all kinds of machine tools it's normal maintenance to resurface working parts. To my mind, by definition the high spots are the parts that aren't being used, so why not skim them down a bit to even out the working surface in order to get more usable flat space, especially for work where surface finish is important? Maybe the question could be rephrased as "How thin is too thin, and how flat is flat enough? I'm leaning toward flatter, but I'm definitely open to other opinions, especially if backed up with solid reasoning. With all due respect, most of the replies so far have run awfully close to "Because we've always done it this way" or "Don't question your elders". Contrary to some comments, I have by no means made up my mind. I won't do anything to the face until I am convinced it's a good idea. I am fully aware that I can't readily put the metal back on. On the other hand, if taking some bumps off and creating useful flat spots makes it work better for me, I'm willing to do that. Please, folks - don't just tell me "Don't do that!". Explain why it's a bad or good idea for the way I expect to use the anvil. Maybe I'm wrong, and it's rare or historically valuable. Maybe there is a history of the faces cracking after dressing. Maybe I'm just one of those annoying people who just has to understand "Why?" Geeze, that sounds like a homework assignment. Didn't mean it that way. Once more, I do not mean to be a troll or disrespect the folks who have replied. I apologize if I have come across that way when questioning or disagreeing. I just have a really hard time letting go of a question until the solution sinks in. And sometimes I miss the answer that's right in front of me.

So, guys, I think I still don't understand how the reply and quote functions work here. I've never run into anything like this on any other forum. It's different here. Please let me reiterate: Just because I may disagree and argue a different view doesn't mean I don't respect your opinion. I've seen too many differences of perspective turn into anger. I don't want that. All too often it's just that folks assumed a meaning that wasn't intended. Good communication can be really hard, and I'm not at all great at it. I tend to be a sarcastic xxxxxxxx. But my wife says I'm OK for a boy.

I don't think I've been highlighting anything, but quotes seem to keep being dragged along with my replies. Probably my error. I'll keep trying. My apologies to everyone for any confusion that may have ensued.

Hey folks, I'm still not used to how the quote and reply functions work on this forum. It looks like some of my replies got rolled into quotes that I didn't mean to quote, if that makes any sense. Hey Glenn, is there some way to fix that? And again, folks, I promise I am not a troll. I clearly have opinions that don't match those of some of the respected posters here, but that doesn't mean I don't respect their viewpoints. It just means that I have a different viewpoint. I hope we can continue discussing subjects that we don't always agree on.

There seems to be a common knee-jerk reaction on this forum to say "Thou shalt not attempt to smooth the face of thine anvil for fear of precipitating the Forge-Demon Apocalypse". Maybe there was a traumatic period when hordes of barbaric fiends dragged pristine Peddinghaus anvils the length of Rte 66, but I'm not proposing that. OK, that was over the top. But in all of the replies to my anvil questions, there has not been one that said it was even OK for me to remove the scale from the face of my anvil. And there have been a number that intimated I was risking ruining my anvil by taking a flap wheel to the face. Some of this seems a bit silly to me. Am I wrong?

Why do anvil manufacturers bother grinding faces flat in the first place instead of leaving the full thickness to maximize wear life? Why do we dress hammer faces? Because we want to control the metal of the workpiece, and not have to fight needless bumps and dimples from rough tool surfaces. It's an anvil. A working tool that exists to provide a suitable surface to shape metal against. Many craftsmen would be rightly aghast at trying to do good work on an abused, dented, pitted and chipped surface unless they had no other choice. There's a reason that we no longer use rocks as hammers and anvils. Sure, such damage can be worked around and sometimes even used to advantage, but come on, guys, it's not the Holy of Holies. It's steel. It's a tool. It's meant to be made use of, taken care of, repaired if it makes sense and replaced if it doesn't. It will wear and get damaged. Respect it, but don't worship it. And Frosty, you are very fortunate to have local machine shops that will give you tool steel drops for chatting with the owner. Around here, we have very few machine shops at all and I haven't found any that hand out free material. Again, is my Fisher so rare or valuable that it would be some kind of sin to dress the working face? Would smiths of 50-75 years ago have hesitated to dress the face of their anvil in order to do better work even if it meant their grandchildren might have to replace or reface the anvil eventually?

Guys, I promise I'm not trolling. But I'm having a bit of trouble. Ever since I started looking at anvils a couple of decades ago, I got the impression that Fisher was a utilitarian "farmer's" anvil, like what might have been sold from the Sears Roebuck & Co. catalog. Reasonably respectable quality, but still a consumable tool, to be used and modified for the task at hand, just like a sledge hammer or a digging bar. I never got an impression that they were collectible, rare or special in any way, and I didn't think they were particularly valuable on the resale market. For perspective, I'm a retired auto mechanic. I view tools as items to be used to complete a job. Use them, modify them, destroy them if the job calls for it and will pay for them. They are just tools, and the manufacturers make more every day. (Or that's what I tell myself. But keep your hands off my 32 oz Lixie bronze hammer). So if the Fisher anvil is worth $200 as-is, isn't rare, and can be easily replaced for the same money, should I worry about reducing it's value 25%? OTOH, if it is actually special, I don't want to screw it up further. History counts for something. Hey George, I appreciate the reply. You bring up another reason to work with the Fisher instead of the RR track. If I have to mill off 1/2" and anneal the steel to do that, I now have a soft, flattish piece of not very massive steel. Or I can mill/grind off 1/2" of arguably work-hardened steel and end up with a not very massive piece of steel of uncertain hardness. Working with the Fisher makes more sense to me unless there's a compelling reason to do otherwise.

According to my cheap electronic bathroom scale, about 114lbs. The anvil is marked 10 (stone? pennyweight? I don't know.).

And I've noticed that nobody has hazarded a guess at answering my original question, so I'll rephrase it: If I were to offer the anvil for sale on this forum, what would be a fair selling price? What would YOU pay for it?

And then again, I've previously tried using a chunk of mild steel for working soft metals, and it dented and rounded surprisingly badly. So I wonder how much a chunk of hard-enough without post-heat treat but easily weldable steel would cost. Say 1"x4"x4". Would 4140 prehard do it? There is so much about this stuff that I don't know.

I have a chunk of railroad iron that I could mill and grind flat after cutting the broken ends off (It was broken for scrap, and so has bent, distorted ends). I would need to take off something like 1/2 inch of work-hardened curved surface. It would probably take several days to do so. Taking about 1/16 inch off the Fisher would likely do what I have in mind in a couple of hours. So the question is, which makes more sense? I'm not some kind of metalworking Philistine. If the Fisher has some particular value, I'm open to leaving it alone. But I have observed a tendency on some forums for folks to advocate *somebody else* spending a bunch of time or money to preserve something that the forum folks think should be preserved. So. How many hours and dollars are you willing to put into making me an alternative anvil in order to keep the Fisher in it's current condition? (Not a real challenge. Just a bit of perspective. We're all prone to armchair quarterbacking, myself definitely included). That's not a bad idea, and I'd kinda forgotten about it. So maybe I should rephrase as "Is this Fisher worth the trouble of my widow trying to sell it?". I'm actually curious about a fair market value. But I'm also not convinced that taking 1/16" off the top and edges would "ruin" it. If it's not particularly valuable as-is, dressing the surface and edges might make it a much better tool for lighter, more detailed work. I wouldn't want to do that if it's particularly rare and irreplaceable, but if it's just another old farmer's anvil, it might be a different story. Just spitballing. BTW, everything I've done with it so far has not removed more than a few thousandths of intact steel. If I were to remove the Fluid Film and leave it in a horse barn again, in ten years it would be hard to tell that I'd touched it.

I may not have gotten a point across. My body isn't currently up to any serious blacksmithing. Maybe someday it will get better (yeah, right), but at the moment I'm thinking of a different approach. I'm more likely to be working small pieces of copper, brass or aluminum cold. A year or three ago I would probably have tried to find a nice flat, square smooth chunk of hard steel with straight edges and smooth, small radius corners to use as an anvil. But the local scrapyards no longer sell to individuals, and new tool steel costs crazy money, and I've only got so much time to try to work out the ideal solution for an anvil. Is this anvil valuable enough to justify me spending a bunch of time and money finding a different solution than flattening and squaring it up for my expected usage? BTW, just for perspective, regardless of what makes pragmatic sense, I'm currently building a steel anvil stand based on a central 4" steel pipe, 1/2 inch plate and 2" square 1/4" wall diagonal braces, with a concrete base. I just don't think I'll be doing much if any traditional forging of hot iron. (Do the forum rules require consistency?)

I have a somewhat beat-up Fisher that weighs about 114 lbs according to the bathroom scale and has 1883 cast into it. I took a flap wheel and wire cup brush to it to clean off the worst scaly rust. I know that's not an approved method, but I wanted to see what was really there. I realize that doing so may have considerably harmed any collector value. Before I go further, I'm curious to know what I could reasonably expect to sell it for if I decided to do so. And by that, I mean what will any of you offer me for it including shipping. I'm not interested in eBay or Craigslist. I don't want to destroy a valuable, desirable and useful old anvil, but I want a tool that will work well for me. The photos don't show the horn and apron, but they are fully intact and surprisingly smooth given the waviness and pitting of the top. I think previous owners used it pretty hard but weren't ham-fisted morons. I have previously posted other photos if anyone cares to dig them up. If it's not particularly valuable, I'm considering flattening the top considerably via milling and grinding to make it more suitable for my intended use. I know that the hard layer isn't really thick, but it appears to be sufficient to allow skimming off about 1/16th without irretrievably weakening the hard layer. My body is well past the point of hoping to become a skilled blacksmith with the attendant thousands of hours of hammer time, so I'm looking at this as more of a pragmatic appliance or a metalworking dilettante. Don't get me wrong, I would love to be able to forge heavy iron, but that's only one of many things I'd love to be able to do that my body will no longer allow. Playing guitar, riding fast motorcycles, art photography, fine woodworking, seducing beautiful wealthy grateful young women... Those are not really realistic goals at this point. I shake too much and my joints are in really lousy shape. And I am interested in about a thousand more pursuits than I can possibly even try. I might still be able to do some light, decorative metalworking, maybe some jewelry, straightening small welded pieces cold and other blacksmithing heresy. For that, I would want a flat, smooth top with as little texture as possible. Given the eye-watering cost of a suitably heavy chunk of flat, hard, smooth tool steel these days to provide an equivalent work surface, milling the top might be my best bet if the whole anvil is only worth a couple hundred bucks. So, what do you think? Let the flaming and casting of stones begin.

Frosty, Thanks for all of the comments. It's nice to be on a forum where posters compete to be helpful. I used to have really good hammer control until my joints got worn out, wonky and wobbly and the essential tremor started making me shaky. Now it's more a matter of damage control. Getting old sucks, but it beats the alternative.

I can easily wait to modify the anvil until I'm sure I need to. I've waited somewhere between 10 and 20 years just to do some rust removal and shine up the surprisingly intact and smooth horn and step. What's another decade or so? My "go-to" steelworking hammer used to be a 4lb hickory-handled drilling hammer, but it somehow got inexplicably heavy. At the moment I kinda like the looks of an 800g Picard, although one of the chunkier round pein 2lb blacksmith hammers also looks good. So many hammers, and so little time. And then there's the keeper of the accounts...

Continuing on with the idea of making this anvil more useful: In the photo in the OP, the near edge is wobbly, chipped, chunked and damaged, more or less as it goes from left to right. I've got an idea that grinding/dressing it into an increasing radius as it goes from horn to heel might be useful, especially with the option of using a hardie block for flat surfaces and sharp corners. Seems to me that making it kind of a smooth taper/transition might be a useful feature, as opposed to all of the dips, holes, missing bits and wallers in the current edge. Is this a bad idea?

It's going to take me a while to get used to replying here. A number of my posts have been snipped and combined for "excessive quoting". If my posts seem a bit odd and disjointed, that may be the reason. Not complaining, just trying to figure out the rules.

That gets me close enough. I didn't really want to try to repair or restore the anvil. My favorite hammers look far worse but they still work and are very comfortable in my hand. The anvil block should take care of all of the issues with the anvil. I have to admit that the anvil's condition is quite comfortable for me. It's been used, and ain't pretty no more, but it's still up for more. I just wanted to be able to have some flat and corner surfaces to work with. A hardie block should get me there. Oy. So many forums with so many different details. Thanks for the welcome. I don't know if I'll become a regular here. I like working metal, but hammers and my joints aren't besties these days, and I also like riding motorcycles, playing with puppies, using motorized equipment to move dirt and rocks around, and lots of other stuff. I hope to step on the last bus while distracted about a new interest.

That fits pretty well with my impression. I have several welders, a very well worn South Bend Heavy 10 lathe, a really pitiful ancient Horrible Fright mill/drill, a bunch of hammers and other hand tools. I'm not a weldor, a machinist or a carpenter, but I can usually put stuff together so it works and stays together. I really like the anvil block idea as suggested by Glenn, and I hadn't come close to thinking of that on my own. As I asked him, any suggestions for what to make the block out of? I suspect there is a weldable steel that's hard and tough enough to work well. Maybe 4140 prehard?

Hey, Glenn, thanks for the advice, but it would be more appropriate if I were 16 or 26. 2000 hours is over 20% of a 9600 hour year going 24/7 without a break. As I mentioned, I'm a 66 year-old retired mechanic. Carpal tunnel syndrome, radial tunnel syndrome, tendinitis, bone spurs, shredded but not quite failed rotator cuffs and seriously inflamed joint bursae make spending endless hours swinging a hammer a non-starter. I'm looking to do what I can with what I still have, without destroying what's left. Please don't take this as a slap at your advice. Younger people who want to become really good at shaping iron would do well to follow your plan. I just don't have the ability or passion to go that way. I want to have some fun and make some enjoyable small pieces. I agree. Not interested in restoring. Just wondering how to approach making it more useful. The hardie suggestion is just what I needed. That will give me what this anvil is missing, and will let me explore small-scale ironworking. As far as mounting the anvil, I have plenty of hardwood stumps, but I have a wild xxxx idea that involves a piece of the limestone boulder that I recently cut into sub-1000lb chunks. Mass and resonance damping are useful, right? Glenn, Can you suggest a particular steel for the hardie block? I would prefer something that I could weld and machine without having to heat treat. Mild steel seems far too soft for the purpose.

As you can see, I've taken a flap wheel and some other light finishing tools to it. The face and the edges of the face, along with the hardie and pritchel holes have clearly had a hard life. But the step and horn shine up real nice. I've read that the top of the step and the horn should be tool steel, just like the face. You can see where the steel part of the step disappears into the iron. My ambitions at present are limited to rather small decorative work, like plant and bird feeder hangers. Maybe the occasional specialty hand tool. No fancy knives (I have plenty of sharp edged utility tools), no handmade hammers, etc. Pretty much learner/hobby kind of stuff to start with. What I'm wondering about is whether there is a reasonable way to recover some of the face and edges. I'd like to have a section of the top have a pretty flat, smooth and non-pitted surface, along with some approximately 90 degree corners to work with. I may have taken as much as .005" off the face in order to make the dings, pitting and wear visible in the photo. I didn't want to do anything that might significantly harm the function. I'd just like to have a fairly smooth and flat patch on it for smaller, prettier pieces and a few inches that resemble corners for making tighter bends.