Charlotte

Enough !  You remind me of one of my partners Dutch uncles " I'm not going to believe it until I'm convinced, but I'll be goll-darned if I'm going to be convinced!"  

The famous Sandia forge that was created in the Sandia labs used two stainless steel tubes that heated the air pulled by the burners  in the forge.   The plans may still be available from  ABANA.  The tubes were placed so that they crossed the dragons breath at the year of the forge.     I haved use a similar set up to preheat the air going to my burners.   It works well and can raise you forge heat without additional fuel.   Adding heat with a heat gun etc. is a waste of energy and fairly futile.    Redesign the forge so the exhaust blows over pipes that lead to the burners.   Doing this naturally aspirated is difficult.  With a blown system careful thought about where you introduce the propane will be required. 
 

No I will not tell you more about my design.  The wrong way of doing it could blow yourself up.

Btw a propane air torch supplied with compressed air amount to the same thing as the illustration. 

A number of folks are interested in your "Alaska" flux.  This project is a good one to try it out on.!  Adding a sliver of 1018 works but is not always easy to do the weld. Next go round I will try it.

There is a floor wax sold as Clear Acrylic floor wax,( I forget the name) which I used to use for small indoor item.  Just drip and let dry.  These days I use automotive clear coat spray  

Frosty, I've had good success drilling iron hardware store nails with number drills and silver soldering them into open copper  or stainless steel tubing.

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2015‎ ‎3‎:‎48‎:‎09‎, Mikey98118 said:

Charlotte,

Methane's theoretical flame temperature is nearly the same as propane; not its proven heating value, which is about one-half. Both the CO and H2 combustion are heat producing, so minor heat is added in the secondary flame. Formation of the H2O leaches heat from the secondary flame; it does not produce heat.

Should have I underlined the word  NET?

You need to read physical chem books and Organic chem books and you will understand.  Just because you think things are the same they are not. The interaction of fuels Oxygen and Nitrogen in a furnace are complex and not straight forward.  Just think about this carbon carbon bonds produce more heat when broken and combined with Oxygen than Oxygen combining with hydrogen after breaking the carbon hydrogen bond.  The actual process is hugely complex at the molecular level and not everything we know about it well understood despite the calculations we know how to do. One of the nasty things that water vapor does <aka Steam> is combine with iron molecules to produce black oxide iron oxide and hydrogen  which then combines with atmospheric oxygen.   In days to Steam power  some terrible explosions were tied to the production of hydrogen from the contact of steam with red hot Iron.  The reaction of steam and Iron is one of the reasons it is hard for a gas forge to produce the nice slick looking forge work that is so easy to produce with out thought in a solid fuel forge.

in coal forges deeper is usually better than wider.  I did my first fluxless  weld with a deep coal forge made a farrier friend of mine.

The filling of cylinders with no clear title can involve real serious liabilities for the filler.   However,  I  should add that the company I worked for eventually went out of the cylinder business some time ago.  One the problems we had was what you have encountered: the guy on the counter takes the cylinder in and  the guy on the dock rolls it into the empty pile.

Nobody stops to ask what is the history of the cylinder.  As long as the current CGA connection is something that matches what they fill  it gets filled if in test.  If it goes to hydro the valve is thrown away,  Except for the stamping the cylinder has no history.  A date, a corp, and a manufacturing specification. Along with a serial number.

Is this safe? Not really but accidents with filling steel gas cylinders are rare because there has been over a century of development.  Does any of the above filling match DOT or CGA specification or practice. No!  Why do I worry?  Because I know and have seen the consequences of one carless error compounded by another.  I have filled and used cylinders that were put in service during WW1.  All gas cylinders are steel balloons.    If you don't know the history you are best advised to start fresh with cylinders from you supplier with their name stamped in the steel. 

Thanks for the information. guys.  I'll look for POR15 ,  I use 6011 for 7018 depending.

Painted welds always seem to rust first and fast.   The metal is more reactive because to the heat applied.  I've noticed that some professional Industrial painting companies don't seem to have a problem.  However,  a lot of the house painter jobs seem to rust.  I started grinding and phosphate years ago. 

don't take the tanks

they are a controlled ownership item.   They either belong to a gas provider or they belong to her dad.  Unless she can find the paper work showing the purchase of the tanks no body will fill them.   Look at the owner ship identification on the tanks.  Call the local industrial gas company to pick them up.  

This is one of the issues I worked with for over twenty years in the industry.   People would often outlaw cylinders from a job site then abandon them.  Acetylene cylinders can be house destroying dangerous.

16 hours ago, Buzzkill said:

Right, but both the CO2 and H2O reactions are exothermic, so heat is added in both cases. Methane has only slightly less theoretical heat than propane in complete combustion. What I'm curious about is why methane in a NA burner would end up with significantly less heat than propane if both were run at reasonably high pressures.  Since methane requires less oxygen it would seem that the orifice size of the jet/mig tip would be larger than the corresponding propane setup and get a good mix of fuel and air.  How does this result in more heat blowing out of the forge than happens with propane?  I'm still not seeing why the water vapor would be more of an issue with methane than propane either. 

I'm not disputing that it is correct; I just don't understand *why* it is correct.

The extra heat comes from the carbon / carbon bonds .   It takes heat to break bonds between atoms.  Compare propane to propylene and methyactylene / propadiene.  and acetylene.

The amount of heat is dependent on the net reaction.  acetylene is a high energy bond that tales little to break and produces a lot of heat. In fact if you are careless with it  acetylene will self polymerize and produce enormous amounts of heat. 

One of the things about electric welding  that  I've never really solved is how to passivate  the weld area for good paint adhesion.    I find my self grinding down flush, sanding the area and applying phosphate prep before I can trust the surface not to react later on and spoil the appearance.   Walking around and looking at painted and welded steel it seems that often others have the same problem.

Any short cuts? 

Reply could be more creative if you would provide dimensions. Epoxy paints are all close to the same price.  Try looking at local paint company sites.   

The migration of carbon into the surface is measured in hours.  The rate of scaling moving from fire to anvil is measured in seconds.  So buy the carbon  number steel you want to use.  Another choice is to forge the low carbon cable and insert high carbon steel in the billet.

Stand is best  but if space is a problem them hardwood riser is also excellent.

mild steel is a basket term that includes a number of products.   Reviewing some welding information last night I was reminded that there are dozens of specifications of architectural specifications which relate to the application shape and thickness.   Today we have low alloy high strength steels that are the result of heat treating and processing that seem to be junk when you try to forge it, 

I don't think poor quality but instead think " What the heck did I just get hold of" 

I really didn't think about your location but, it could be pig iron.  In the old days the dross at the end of the pour still had a lot of Iron left in it.  It was used for things like window weights, anchors blocks etc.    I had the displeasure of trying to work one of the window weights years ago. It was full of all kinds of junk inclusions.

I remember when I lived in PA you could come across odd bits like your find in a number of places.

Cast iron melts at a lower temp than mild steel but could be that if was " red short"  I've seen pieces that would go to sparkling heat before they wouldn't fall apart.  Really low grade cast Iron that has not been heat treated is really Iron with graphite flakes to my understanding.  Hard but very brittle when heated up in the red-yellow range.   I tried years ago a similar experiment  with some broken antique cast and experienced something similar.

First Aid books say cool water.    You want to remove the heat from the tissue asap.   Hot water ?  You got to be kidding.  Blisters will form if it is a second degree burn.

Been at this a long time and been in like 25 or so years of safety lectures and first aid classes required for supervisors.  Don't know where you have been but I've been burned on the job and off.  Cool tap water is the ticket.  If it is a third degree or a deep second degree burn get thee to the emergency room asap.

Breaks my heart to think of that getting lost but a knife is a tool as well as art.  I should be used,  I love it.

excellent hammer control and great sense of balance  in design;

you might want to think about events Like the New Orleans Jazz fest.  There is an "art section "  which often has a selection of Art metallic art.    Could be a little early in your career to afford,  But Is the kind of art venue in which articles like that sell.   People often get repeat buyers from the shows that support them for years,   

3 hours ago, John McPherson said:

Weygers was written when? Would you take a cross country trip with an Esso map from 1962?

A lot has changed since most of the blacksmithing texts were written. Like, man landing on the moon. Some, heavier than air flight.

Don't get me wrong, I am the NC state chapter librarian, and own a bunch of old books myself. But I understand that they are snapshots of history, and we live in an age when things are obsolete as soon as they are printed. Because I teach modern welding metallurgy, processes and procedures, up to and including Robotic & Orbital, I have to read a lot of technical journals and articles, take all sorts of training, things change all the time. 

Weygers  wrote in 1962 and was the source that started me on the road.   I appreciate that much has changed in metallurgy since that time.  However, from the standpoint of forging ferrous alloys with hand and  hammer much of what he said and demonstrated is still relevant.  Many alloys that were available are no longer for sale I'm most places.  Alloys used in automobiles have changed radically and so can not be depended on to be anything that is practical for the smith to work with.  However

The point of your post is this as I understand it.  "Don't count on anything you find on being what you expect it to be based on history?"

My point is this Weygers and other "old book"  techniques are still short cuts to learning how to approach our work with fire, hammer, and hand.