Alphafarrier

Hi there folks, is there a product that acts both as a rigidizer and adds some small amount of protection to ceramic blanket? I am just finishing up a prototype forge for the Farrier industry. As these forges are portable, the ceramic board insulation takes a beating as we drive down the roads, especially if the forge is in a trailer. Some have found their forge liners breaking down in less than 6 months. There is a need for another solution. I have designed a forge that will use only blanket insulation for the walls and roof (sort of a mailbox design). We will see if they can take the banging down the road any better. I have read until my head is swimming about the different ways to coat this stuff. Most of these forges will be run at relatively low temperatures most of the time. But I am making these commercially available, so want to seal the fibers for safety, and if I can get a bit more life out of the blanket that is a bonus.

That’s the one! Thanks!

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have a quick question. I seem to recall reading somewhere on the forum that Mikey said he was no longer bevelling the inside edge of the choke sleeves on his burners. Can anyone confirm this?

Thanks Miley. This is for a Mikey style burner, and yes, the id of the accelerator tube is the correct size to be tapped directly into. When you say I can get by with the shorter tips, do you think they will hurt performance vs the longer ones?

Hey guys. Quick question. So I know that the overall length of the accelerator assembly is important, however if the accelerator tube is long enough, does it matter how long or short the mig tip is? I've been looking to move to a 1 1/8th inch mig tip, down from a 1 1/2" (I can buy the shorter ones pre-tapered!)

Mikey, is this true, or did you mean the inside diameter of the flame nozzle? In your book you ask for a lot more overhang than the inside dimension of the mixing tube, for instance the 1/2" burner uses a 1" overhang.

The good news: all I did to get that picture is to adjust the choke!

Here are a few flame pics. I would like some input, and possible ideas on how to improve?

Buzzkill: My priorities are something that can withstand some mechanical abrasion and be somewhat resistant to flux, but not take forever to heat up. I tried splits on the floor, it took forever to heat. I need a forge that comes up to a reasonable temp in a few minutes without using a ton of fuel. Kiln shelf works ok. It's just costly. Frosty: Production line forge building Mikey: I get your point. I'm just asking what this material might be, and where I might find it. I am turning to you guys because I'm not a rank amateur on this point, I'm actually confused. I have disassembled and inspected literally almost every mainstream propane forge in the market (and worked extensively out of many of them, especially NC, Forgemaster, Colleoni, Blacksmith, Swan, Hall, Cliff Carrol, etc). I have talked all the major high temp insulation companies at length about their products (and dozens of smaller ones). And yet I can't seem to find this brick that this little company from North Carolina is using. It has to be cost effective (because they are the budget forges), yet it can withstand quite high temps, is somewhat insulative, is resistant to flux, is not as dense as the dense firebrick, nor as heavy. It is more porous. Any ideas?

Okay, I need some wisdom here. What is the halfway point between soft, insulating firebrick and dense, thermal battery-like firebrick? NC forges don't even have insulation in the bottom, rather they have a firebrick. It's still pretty tough, yet it insulates enough that the bottom of the forge does not get too much heat. And it heats up quickly, despite having an inferior burner design. High alumina kiln shelf works ok, but is expensive compared to firebrick, at least in my neck of the woods. I could pour my own floors, but as I am hoping to turn this into a production item I would much to prefer to use what is available on market already.

Is a stepped burner nozzle or tip on a frosty burner a contradiction? Is a stepped burner nozzle a high speed burner thing, and the frosty burner a lower speed burner?

Too late! I already put Kiln shelf in. It works much better. And I’ll coat it with Plistex. What next?

Question: What are some of the basic factors that affect how quickly a forge comes up to temperature? Background: I’ve been running two prototype forges for about 6 months now. I found that high temperature firebrick takes FOREVER to get up to temp, even though it’s only 1.25” that I had lining the floor over refractory. I replaced with high alumina kiln shelf, and that has been much better. I have two Mikey burners powering these forges. The heat is concentrated, and does eventually spread out, and get very hot, but it does take longer than a traditional Venturi burner to come up to temp.

Alright, I’ll give that a go, and we’ll see how it works. Not being able to help seeing ideas is not a bad thing! Heck, even if only 25% of them work (and I’m sure your batting average is probably a lot higher), the world is still a much better place! I, for one, am learning a lot. One more thing Exhaust port size. Is there a rough rule of thumb for a given burner size? I know adjustable is ideal, but I don’t have that freedom in this application. If I had to pick one side of the spectrum, let’s say I was more concerned about less back pressure and less concerned about efficiency?

I'll give the incense sticks a try. As to removable burners, the problem is that for Farriers, usually you can get away with a little bit of vertical space, but horizontal space is at a premium. Forges need to be slid out to the back of a pickup truck bed, or are mounted on van doors or swing-out arms. A horizontally mounted burner is just not realistic. As to removable, again, it's just not realistic. Farriers need to set up and tear down a work station several times a day, and messing around with a hot burner, having to store it somewhere safe, and then trying to get it back in again, all while keeping in mind that whatever mechanical system to hold the burners in place will be constantly expanding, contracting, and corroding with heat, it's just too many things to go wrong. I will mess around with proportions and do some smoke tests when I have time, and will keep you all in the loop. One question I have is also with regards to burner location on a top mount. Right now, I have the burners mounted in such a way that the two burners divide the lateral outside dimension of the forge into thirds. I was thinking I should change this so that the forges would laterally divide the inside insulated space into thirds, as viewed from the front (I can draw a diagram if this isn't making sense). Basically, from side to side, there would be equal space from the inside left sidewall of the forge to the middle of the first burner, the middle of the first burner to the middle of the second burner, and from the middle of the second burner to the inside right sidewall. Right now the burners are further apart. Do you think putting them closer together would cause that high-pressure spot you were talking about in between the burners?

Also, Frosty, just a note: this forge has side ports, and would be operated with the door closed. Will that change the comments you made?

When you are all doing your smoke tests, what do you use to make smoke?

Frosty: maybe I had some bad info. I thought I read somewhere that your mixing tubes were like 1.5 times a mikey or something like that. I'll rethink my options That's a good thought. I had hoped I would get some of that effect at the front end of the forge with the door closed, but you are correct, the exhaust draft does seem to pull everything out the side before that happens. I may have to go out tonight and flip the lid tonight, mount it backwards, and see what happens! If I do that, do you think there will be any problems with a high pressure area in the back of the forge creating back pressure? What I mean is, will it be hard to vent the exhaust because new incoming gas is going the opposite direction? (New gas is travelling towards the back of the forge, while exhaust gas needs to travel towards the front of the forge to go out the exhaust vents).

The Frosty T would be my first choice as well. One of the challenges with building farrier forges is the many requirements. One of them is space, and while I may yet go with the T burner if I can't get good enough performance out of the Mikey, I would love to be able to make them work, even if it means a small performance or efficiency loss. The mikey burners have some non-performance points in their favor: they are much shorter, and they are easier to mass produce.

Hey guys, thanks for the help. 671jungle, these are farrier forges, and a rectangle makes a lot of sense because for the most part we are putting flat shoes in. On top of that, it allows the use of board instead of soft fiber insulation, which for a production run is far less labor involved in setting up, applying, and slow curing coatings for said fiber blanket insulation. This forge design will actually allow for 2.5"-4.0" of vertical space inside, depending what combination of insulation/hard facing is used. I thought i'd start with less vertical height to see what I could do in terms of maximizing efficiency. Obviously all the parts need to fit together, so I will have to sacrifice a small amount of efficiency to gain some by having burners that actually function. Having the full height get's over 350 cubic inches, hence the need for two 3/4" burners. The turndown range is great, so they can just tick over while on the road doing farrier work, but in a competition setting where every second counts, I would like to be at the absolute maximum I can be in terms of burner capacity. This may still be too much burner, but we'll see, I'll enlarge the inside and then we'll see what's what! The burners are set towards the back of the forge, and aimed at a 15 degree angle to just behind the center of the floor in the middle of the chamber. And I know you guys LOVE pictures, so here are a few for you

Hard firebrick, 3000 f would be ideal

Another mikey burner question. I am building some box forges. I have decided on top mount burners. (I did some tests with burners mounted on the sidewalk. Although that works very well, it will not be practical as these forges will need to be portable). The insulated space is about 2.5” tall (and 10” deep and 12” wide, because I know some will ask). The forge takes quite a while to get up to temperature. I feel like the 2.5” is not enough, and is causing back pressure. Is there a rough rule of thumb on how much vertical space a 3/4” mikey burner would need in this type of scenario to burn efficiently?

Hey guys, I live in Ontario Canada. Does anyone know of a place to buy firebrick? Especially 1.25"? I'm not sure this is the right spot for this, so I'm sorry if there is somewhere better.

That's a great analogy, especially for me I'll see how it runs, and adjust from there.

Ok, so a 45 degree bevel, while not ideal, should work OK?