billp

Great job Alec

I take it you were not doing any demonstrations at this show? I did one at a small town's restored Blacksmith shop back in April with a brick forge and a huge wood and leather bellows. It was great I enjoyed using the old equipment but using the bellows did turn into a lot more work then using an electric blower. Think goodness I had my grandson with me to work that part.

I sold a good amount of things here too with the help of my daughter, as they never had anyone selling things before so that was something new for them. I maybe going back and doing it again in October and December if the group OK's it, this will be a first for them. April has been the only time they have opened the shop for demonstrations as they have had trouble finding someone to work. So I have been trying to get them to open more and have offered to work when ever they do.

I would really like to know how you make the hearts. I have an idea from the pictures but wold rather be right then guess that is if you don't mind passing that along. Again great job
billp

Thinks Frosty that will do just fine thanks

Phil on the small crosses I drill out on one cross arm and the head and the matching spot on the big cross them spot weld with an arc welder. Then I use a hand grinder and a rotary tool to smooth everything out. I use to just make the pins a bit longer and beat them down like rivits but my wife likes the smooth look insted and she is incharge of quality control.

Sorry glen56
But it's not forge welded I have not mastered forge welding yet which might work better but not sure but it would solve some problem arc welding causes.
Bill P

I have been away for a while but back now and had a question.
I know the split crosses have been done to death but I was just curious if anyone ever tried this.

I got the idea from my church which has three very large crosses out front. In fact the truckers who drive past on I-40 just outside of Memphis, Tn call our church "Fort God" because of the crosses and how large our church is.

So I was just woundering if any else has tried this or am I the first, which would be a first for me if I was. make sense????

Yeah, but this 1045 is "as-forged" not normalized and the stuff he had he tried to anneal. If your drill press won't go down to 250, it's not much use in a blacksmith shop. The "with coolant" is just me with a squirt bottle in my hand. Still think it's a drilling problem not a steel problem. For every time I've seen it be a material problem I can cite a hundred where it was a speed/feed/drill problem. In fact I've seen more times where they had the drill going backward than I've seen the material was too hard.

Will my drill press is one I got at a Lowes, Home Depot or somewhere like that and just big enough to do most wood and metal jobs I do. I'll see if I can drop it's speed to get as close to 250 as possable and see how it works for future use. As for the problem I started with the all six are finished and hanging proudly 24 feet above the stage floor of our little theater with new black curtains and old cob webs on the surrounding fixtures. As my little off the cuff design of hanging brackets worked real well and doing a great at the job they were designed for.
billp

What device are you using to drill with? drill press, hand drill motor, handrill, post drill? Sounds like something is wrong with your drilling process more than the steel being too hard.

I'm using a drill press with the same settings I have always used for all my metel drilling. No to they all started off fine just thick metel so after 48 holes, to answer another question, yes I do think the dit got a little dull.
The pieces that got to hard I just gave up on for now and made new ones. But I will keep them and play around with them just to learn what to do the next time as I got a lot of ideas from this, just not enough time to try them all.
Thanks again folks for all you help
billp

To answer one question first no I never dunk my pieces in water after welding. But I did start grinding down the welds to smooth out the piece before letting it cool after welding. As a rule I don't dunk anything I make unless I'm trying to harden it for a tool then I use old motor oil. I don't fully understand about harding or conditioning of metal only bits and pieces as I am still learning as I go.

After I responded back the first time I went out got my pieces to almost light orange hot then set to one side inside the hood of my coal forge. When I finished the last piece I cut my air off put the coldest piece on the bottom then stacked them on the still hot coals and covered with coal dust (I don't have any sand) and let them sit over night. But all the pieces were still hard when I checked then the next day. So I just bought new steel drilled them out first and will now weld them together. But I did discover that they were still a bit hard to drill as I had to use a new bit to start and it almost did not make it through the last piece as there were 12 pieces total with 4 holes each a total of 48 holes. So I guess the steel was just a bit harder then I though it would be or being 1/4" thick added to the problem.

Again thanks to all for sharing your thoughts you are all a really big help to me when I need it. I am really glad this sight was started thanks again.
billp

What were you starting with? If it was just flat bar from the steel supply I'd be looking at my drill. Is the bit sharp? What RPM?

NO, my drill bits are fine and the stock I'm using is a common steel stock you can pick up at the hardware store. I have used it many times and it drills fine no matter the thickness. I have had this problem before but it was in the summer time and my methods worked then. I think after reading the suggestions you all posted thsat my problem is that the cold weather we are having now is cooling my metal to fast. So I'll just leave the pieces in my coal forge to cool slower after I finish and see if that works.
I just think I got it to hot with all the welding and grinding not letting it cool between processes. My bad, after all I'm still learning. but if all else fails I try what has been suggested or by new stock drill first the put together.
Thanks all for your help.

billp

As I also belong to a small town theater group I am trying to make brackets to hang some black curtains from. I started off with 2 - 1 1/2" wide strips 1/4" thick and 6" long. I then take 2 of these pieces and weld them together to make a 3" x 6" bracket. Will after all the welding and then grinding down to smooth out the weld I got the metal to hot and now to hard to drill through as I need at least 8 holes in each bracket. I tried to heat the brackets up to a red almost light orange color then let them air cool but still no luck. So I need to know just what I can do if any thing to soften the metal so I can drill them out. Any ideas please let me know, Thanks
bill p

One slight advantage I have had is for many years I wroked as an EMT on an ambulance in my home county. This gave me access to wed sights of medical suppliers in which I found a really great gel for burns called Water Gel. At first it only came as an additive to special burn sheets. But now it is sold in a squeeze bottle and is really great on burns. Now when I get burned I give it a little while to see if it's going to keep getting worse or die down if worse I just dab on a few drops and pain is gone and back to work. But to tell the truth the more times I get burned the more I'm getting use to it so this bottle may last a while.
BillP

Some time ago I post a topic about recieving my first burn while working as a blacksmith. Will a few weeks ago at my doctors for an exam I was questioned about a new burn on my arm when a piece slipped an flew back and slapped my arm. As I was explaining how it got there in my mind I started adding up just how many I have gotten and forgot about. Kind of like badges that show who we are, Man I love being a blacksmith.
Bill P

Sorry I missed it as I just now saw your post, just like me a day late and a dollar short.
I'll be at Haritage Days in Covington, Tn on Sept. 25th just right next door. It will be my first shot at setting up and trying to sell a few things so we'll see how it goes. Come on out if you like I'll be set up in the parking lot of the Historic Ruffin Theater on he square. That goes for anyone else who might be in the area more then welcome to come visit.
billp

Clinton
I'll be looking for that truck lost of barrel halfs I'm good for 2 or 3.
BillP

After paying a little over $100.00 for a half barrel and shipping last year I came across a local farm type supply store close to home selling some dried up falling apart barrel halfs. Will when I went inside to find out the price the manager couldn't so he made me an offered of $20.00 apiece. Will I decided to take a chance picked the best out of four and prayed it would not fall apart puttng in the back of my SUV.

Will when I got home I put it in a tub that only let it fill up a couple of inches (it was the biggest tub I have) and let it sit all day and night. Will to make a long story short it holds water and works like a champ. I was able to fill it up to about two inches from the top and so far it is still holding. I am even thinking of going back and getting another, if he will honer the same price, even if I don't need it now might some day.

So the moral to this story is even if it looks hopeless give it a shot it just might pay off, if the price is right.
BillP

I have both...coal is cooler for the room but dirtier...propane blows that heat into tthe room..altho propane dries the air in the humidity i find it way more hotter in the room. However a btu is a btu doesnt matter what produces it its a btu. I have heard people tell me the heat doesnt stay in the metal as long as coal...cant be! NO chance. The only difference would be the scaling is more with propane than the gas...only difference. 1000 degrees is a thousand degrees no matter what makes it. The nature of a propane forge is why it makes the room hotter...it blows into the room...duh!! the coal is in a contoled pile so it may radiate a bit but it dont blow into the room...

Will through all the hub bub and debate, the good advice and the some bad, Fat Pete you have made the most sense of them all in a way this simple Tennessee man can understand the best. Oh and I started with charcoal and did Ok with it just got to where I prefer coal.
Again thanks to all who responded
BillP

Aren`t most folks in this discussion discounting the fact that most of the escaping heat from a solid fuel forge is drawn up the chimney and out of the shop while the escaping heat from a gas forge is staying in the building?
Very few of the gas forges I`ve seen or worked with are vented or run in conjunction with a chimney or hood that will pull a draft.

OK another thought I use a side draft hood or as it is called a "super sucker" is that still drawing more heat up the pipe as appose to a full hood? Or does this style hood allow more heat into the shop?

By the way I still have a bit of trouble getting my hood to work as well as I would like on start up but was able to improve it service over all from advice I got from another post.
BillP

WOW kind of looks like I started more then I ment to. But you all did settle my main question so I guess I'll just keep looking for coal suppliers.
No, I did not mention my shop is small 10 x 12 all metal on a dirt and paver floor. I do use 3 fans but still have to stop work around 11 and restart around 6. Just got to thinking about the difference in gas to coal and thought I would ask. It did get a bit technical though but do appreciate the effort to educate. Thanks again for all the comments but then again I really don't see the fear in getting black lung. As it takes years of breathing the coal dust to effect miners and the time I put in is just a drop in the bucket.
Stay cool all
BillP

Which forge do you think is cooler in the shop to work with gas or coal? Right now I use coal and have to stop working in my shop when it gets into the 100's around 10 or 11 AM so my shop time is cut into quite a bit. I have been thinging of switching to gas because coal is getting harder to get where I live and just got the bug woundering if a gas forge would keep a cooler shop. Would be good to here your thoughts.
Also,I was not sure which forge sigh to put this on so just droped it here if wrong sorry.
Bill P

As a former EMT-IV in Tennessee I have seem more then my share of heat problems. As I was also working on a truck line loading dock I was always called on when someone fell out. But if you are looking for salt tablets now of days thay will be hard to find if you even can. Now Doctors have you drink sports drinks Power Aid, Gator Aid, etc. as thay put electro lites in and are not as hard on your system as salt tablets.

But then again as eveyone has said drink, drink, and drink, as much water as you can before you start and keep doing it as you work. Sports drinks are good but should not replace water. I would say drink one sport drink then at least 4 times as much water before you have a heat problem. If you do fall out drink at least 2 or 3 sports drinks then sipp on water for the rest of the day and keep cool.

Also you may find if you have heat exhaustion once you may fall victim much easier the next time. So be careful I myself work early in the morning till 10 or 11 and start back after 6 or 7 in the afternoon with at least 4 fans going in a 10 x 12 metal shop with highs from 96 to 99. I have problem with heat so this is what helps me and might help you just work with care eat well and drink brother drink.
BillP

Here is the forge I made and showed a good while back but now installed in my new smith along with one I got from a friend this spring.

Thanks
Keith & Jayco
I'll try your ideas Saturday and Sunday will be full days in the shop so I should have the time to try out several of the ideas given
Thanks again
BillP

I need to explain more in that my shop is a 12 x 10 all metal building no windows and 1 double sliding door. I did put in a 12" x 12" louver type window with a box fan in front of it blowing out. It is on the wall across from the doors to help draw air through the shop, I hope. My chimney is about 3 feet above the roof line but there is another building 6 feet away taller then the chimney on only one side. The pipe is an 8" pipe about as big as I could find around here. I'll try adding more pipe to the chimney and see how that does. I will have to say too that when I first used the super sucker I was working outside, the shop I have now is the only shop I have used this hood in.
I might even try the plains off the web sight you sent Eric to build a new hood or add to the one I have anyway I'll try something till it works. Thanks folk for your input and help.
Bill P

I build a super sucker side draft for my forge some time ago and it use to work really well untill I got it in my new shop. If my fire is in the back of the fire pot it works well but if it starts up in the front the shop fills with smoke till the coal cokes up. Though about adding a larger hood over the super sucker but could use a few ideas if anyone has a couple.
I'll try and attach a picture of my forge.
BillP

Swamp coolers pull air through wet pads to cool it by evaporation. Works best when relative humidity is under 30%

In NM many people use them instead of "refrigerated air". One nice thing is that they generally move a LOT of air. I think mine uses a 1/3 hp motor on it's squirrelcage. Another nice thing is they are dead simple and every store around here stocks parts for pretty much a complete rebuild save for the frame!

when it's single digit RH they will make you shiver!

OK that makes sense, with our high humidity I can see it working better for you then us in the South and the reason why I have not heard of them, thanks
BillP

I will say the dry heat is much better then our very humid weather here. It is a real pill and even worse the more south you go. I have family who live in West Texas and they would almost die when they came to visit in the summer. In my younger days I worked 24 years on a truck line dock loading and unloading trucks and it was a killer. Had on a black tee shirt one day when someone asked where had I been as I had big white strips going round my chest, salt stains from sweating.

Right now I am working on building a stand for a large fan I got from my wife's father's old shop and picked up the pipe today for it. I'll put that bugger in the door way and hold on if it gets to bad, it's about a 18" or 20" fan with a good size motor on it. But what is a swamp cooler sorry kind of new one on me?

Wetting the roof down sounds like a great idea to me too, I'll have to try that. But no I can't insulate the roof unless I put some type of fome on it's just to low at about 6' high at the highest point, good thing I'm only 5' 4".

All in all a lot of great ideas you folk keep cool, as if a blacksmith wasn't one of the coolest persons to be already.
BillP

I don't know about the rest of you folks but here in Tennessee it is really getting hot. Yesterday in my little 10' x 12' metal smithy it got up to 107f with the outside temp in the low 90's. This is even with me using 3 fans to help keep air moving. Even tried forging in shorts but don't recomend it nor will I do it again either. May look at taking a few of the panels out of the middle of two walls to vent better for the summer. Might even try working early in the morning and or late in the evenging and at night. Just one more problem to solve as I need to spend even more time in the shop now than ever before, trying to build inventory to start my little business. Thank goodness I have a small pool to jump in and cool off when ever I need it.
BillP