George N. M.

I assume that the sphere was commercially manufactured. Correct?  Do you know what its original purpose was or did you just go down to Spheres R Us and get one of the correct diameter?

Of what is the red ball made?  It seems very appropriate for the holiday season.  The spiral piece around red sphere looks like the track of an orbiting body to me.

Marc1, you have hit on the real issue that I was trying to make.  IMO there are too many people who call themselves artists who are only trying to shock and disgust.  If I dump a pile of guts on a photo of (name your least favorite public figure) it is NOT art, it is a pile of guts on a photo, no more, no less.  Fortunately, economics enters here.  There are few folk who will pay good money for something that is only disgusting or shocking to be seen in their homes and offices every day.

And the stereotype of artists being emotionally dysfunctional has some truth in it.  Curiously, creativity and emotional turmoil seem to often be linked.

The problem I have with the definition of art as being something which elicits an emotion in the viewer is that I have a hard time saying that something results in a reaction of disgust or hate or revulsion as being "art."  A positive reaction to beauty or something which makes you thoughtful can IMO be art but not something which brings out a negative reaction.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Thomas, as is his wont, has distilled things down to the basics in a few sentences.

He has expressed the essence of the creative-real world interface.  If all artist blacksmiths were financially independent we would all do what gave us joy and never mind the financial value we would gain from it.  If we loved making widgets we'd make them all day and give them all away to anyone we met.  If all we were concerned with was financial reward we would only make things that we could sell for the highest price and creative joy and happiness would not play any part.

Perhaps that answers my initial question at the start of this thread.  Maybe "Art" is that which is created out of the desire to create with no consideration of financial return.  If someone wants to buy it, fine, but it was made for other reasons.  If it never sells, that is fine too because it accomplished its purpose by being brought into existence.

Another observation on the differences between girls and boys:  Boys do sound effects, girls do dialog.  If you give a little boy two rocks he will bang them together saying, "Bang!" "Koosh" "Boom" "Pow" and other suitable sounds.  Give the same two rocks to a little girl and she will have them talking to each other and will come up with an involved backstory for them.

In the 90s a friend was going to raise her son in a nonviolent way with no toy guns or other "violent" toys.  She did her best until one day at breakfast her son, about age 4, bit his toast into the shape of a gun and started "shooting" things in the kitchen with it.  At that point the mother bowed to reality.  The son, now in his late 20s, is an avid Wyoming hunter who puts lots of meat in the freezer every fall.

"Vive la difference!"

i think that the real trick is figuring out how much offset you should set into the teeth.  I'm sure that ice needs a different kerf width than wood or metal.  You might visit some museums and see if you can make some measurements on preserved ice saws.  There should be a reasonable number left in Maine.  For all that I know there may be extant jigs for setting ice saw teeth.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Dear Turbo Dog,

I am in the process of moving to Laramie.  Once I get my shop set up you are welcome to come over and pound hot iron.

You may be surprised how hard super quench will harden RR spikes.  Did you pick them up along the old Laramie, Foxpark, and Western RR to Centennial and Walden, CO?

When coal furnaces and stoves were common every child knew what clinkers were because they had to haul them out.  Now, the term is about as common as buggy whip terms.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Dear Thomas,

Thank you.  That is very cool.  I know that Wrights are good anvils and it has served me well over the years.  And being an anglophile having a UK made anvil is all the sweeter.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Also, consider what shapes you will need in a swage block for whatever type of smithing you will be doing and then design it appropriately.  For example, some smiths might use graduated hemispherical shapes for different sized bowls of ladles, others not so much.  I've always thought that many of the round and square shapes in the face of a "standard" swage black were there for "industrial" smithing.  If you are repairing steam engines and similar they have a use but for lighter smithing maybe they will never be used.

Dear Peppie,

No, a 120 degree shape will give you a "flat" triangular shape.  The internal angles of an equilateral triangle equal 180 degrees.  Hence, each angle equals 60 degrees.  Funny how that high school geometry comes back in useful ways.  Look at a triangular file for confirmation.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

I checked the bottom of the anvil and it is completely flat with an approximately 1 inch by 1.5 inch vertical hole extending up into the middle of the anvil.  I postulate a handling hole.  No markings that I can see or feel on the bottom.  Yes, there is a shelf on the ends of the base for mounting angle irons (see attached photo).  There are what I assume are 2 handling indentations on the sides of the anvil (see 3d photo above) which I have always interpreted as for being where large tongs would attach when the anvil is upside down during manufacturing.

Thomas,

I will check tomorrow.

G.

Dear All,

This anvil has been my primary anvil for 30+ years.  IIRC it weighs about 180-200 pounds.  I bought it from an antique store in Leadville, CO in the early to mid 1980s.  It has absolutely no markings unless there is something under the base and I'm not going to dismount it to look.  I'm hoping that someone may be able to offer an identification based on shape and the fact there are no markings.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

I suggest that you replace some of the 90 degree triangular shapes with some that are 60 degrees so that you can forge a equilateral triangular shape.  Also, I would place the round shapes on the edge in ascending or descending order of size of radius.  That way, if you are closing up a round shape such as a socket you can move from one shape to the next size easily.  As you have it laid out you might have to go to the side of the swage block or turn it over 90 degrees.  Not the most efficient way to do it.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand"

One last thing:  The decision to form a legal entity or pay the premiums for insurance turn on a risk/benefit ratio.  You have to decide how much risk you potentially have, how much risk you are willing to tolerate, and how much money and hassle are you willing to pay to reduce that risk.  Basically, you have to decide "For what could someone sue me?" and "How much could I lose if someone sued me successfully?"  If you are a hobby smith selling a few hundred dollars per year of bottle openers and do dads at craft fairs you probably have very little risk.  If you have a large shop with employees and are selling thousands of dollars per year of architechtural ironwork which could injure someone if it failed you probably want as much liability protection because you have larger potential liability and more to lose.

Dear Jason,

The basic concept is that when you form a corporation, a limited liability company, etc. you have created a new legal entity to replace the natural legal entity, you.  The legal entity is the owner of the business and has the liability and even if you own the legal entity it stands between you and whoever wants to sue for whatever grievance.  It may be easier for an insurance company to get their little heads around insuring the XYZ, Inc. metal fabricating company than John Smith, Blacksmith.  As I have said before, the trick to this being effective is to keep your personal finances and the company finances separate.  This is where a Certified Public Accountant earns their pay.  Listen to him or her.

There is a story of William the Marshall (13th century) dancing with the ladies in full armor while waiting for a tournament to start.  He may have said, "You'll have to pardon my dancing, I'm a bit rusty."

What most folk think of as a "suit of armor" is often 16th century jousting armor.  That said, when someone with money went to an armorer to get a set of armor there were usually parts that could be added or removed.  For example, the helmet that would actually be worn in combat had a fairly open face because limited vision in a battle is not a good thing and for better ventilation.  For jousting, a visor with much more limited vision and heavier plates would be added.  A small vision slit works if all you have to see is your oncoming opponent.  the same is true of the rest of the armor, various plates would be added for the joust.

The same set of armor configured for the joust could be much heavier than it would be for actual military service.

Because it was thought very cool to have pieces of armor fly off at impact some pieces of armor were spring loaded so that if the opponent hit the target just right pieces would fly high into the air.

I have seen a person wearing a full set of historically correct plate armor turn a cartwheel.  Hardly so limiting to need a crane to mount a horse. 

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

If it ain't true it should be.

Late addition to the thread re tongs:  I once heard an Islamic tale that Allah gave the first smith the first tongs because while you can use rocks for hammers and anvils you need a pair of tongs to make a pair of tongs.

Dear Frosty,

IIRC the widmanstatten pattern reflects the crystal structure of the original meteorite.  Therefore, it might not show up unless a stock removal surface was etched by acid or time, just like pattern welded steel does not show its details until the surface is exposed to something to which the steels react differently.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

This thread is drifting a bit but I think that the interaction between the smith as a merchant and the potential customer is important.  For me, the social interaction is an important part of what I get out of a show.  It isn't just about the money.  But, I'm fairly gregarious and social and like the interaction and conversation.  I like educating the folk about the craft.  I'd be lying if I didn't say that it is an ego stroke when people compliment my work or are amazed when I answer in the affirmative that, yes, I made everything here.

That said, there are times when there is some sort of connection between a particular person and a particular item.  There have been times when someone has come back several times to visit a particular item.  You can see they really, really want the item.  Often, they cannot afford what I am asking for it.  And sometimes I can sense that the item just should be with them.  So, I'll take what ever they can afford to give me.  On occasion, I have just given it away to them.  Good karma and cast bread upon the waters.  I have traded my time for someone else's pleasure and I have never felt short changed.

Also, I think it important to have a prepared "patter".  This is particularly important for folk who have a hard time ad libbing.  I could explain what a penannular brooch is and how it works in my sleep.  I've probably recited it thousands of times.  Something I have used at SCA or Celtic events to call people over to my booth is "I have bright shiny things and sharp pokey things!"  Much of my trade seems to be women buying gifts for their men folk.  I encourage that with "Anyone who says it is hard to shop for men has not shopped at my booth."

Maybe at the end of the day it doesn't matter too much if it is craft or art.  If you have connected an object and a person and they have traded you their money for your time and skill it is all good.

The mention of a gargoyle reminds me of a story of a medieval craftsman who was carving a statute for placement high in a cathedral.   He was asked why he was finishing the back of the statue, which would never be seen, as finely as the front.  He replied, "God would know and I would know."

This has been a very interesting thread and has brought up a number of things that I am going to have to consider.

I have always priced my items by the time I put into them.  I figure that all I really have to sell is my time and skill.  For years I have figured my shop time at $50-60/hour (maybe it is time to give myself a raise).  If an item takes me half an hour to produce I price it at $30 or so.

I'm not sure that I am comfortable increasing my prices by a factor of 2, 3, 4, or 5 just because a certain set of customers can or are wiling to pay that amount.  This seems to resemble the communist adage of "from each according to their ability" (to pay).  Is my time any more valuable to a wealthy person than it is to a person of more modest means?

I am going to have to think about the idea that craft has a practical function while art does not.  A safety pin will hold a garment together as well as any brooch.  Does that make all brooches art?

I'm not sure that I am comfortable with the idea that art excites an emotion.  Disgust and revulsion are emotions as valid delight and a sense of beauty.  Maybe I am just not sophisticated enough but I have always thought that art had something to do with beauty and is pleasing to the eye.  That said, I have seen plenty of art that I would not want to see every morning when I get up.  There is plenty of ugly in this bad old world and if I can produce something to counteract that in some small way that is a worthy goal.  Also, who is going to put down good money for something that excites negative emotions in themselves or others unless they are going for some sort of shock value?

Maybe, in an ideal world we would just all trade time.  For an attorney who charges $150/hour for his time my half hour object would cost $75 but for a teacher who makes $20 it is $10.  I once knew a judge who set fines that way.  A person with a well paying job would pay a higher fine for the same offense as a person with a less well paying position.

I'm still unsure of how I would lower the bar for other artists who are selling different objects in different mediums by selling at an average lower price.

The point is well taken re one unique object versus multiples of nearly identical objects.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."