George N. M.

This is an old, old joke but I'll mention it for the young 'uns who may not of heard it.  This may come under the heading of stupid Dad jokes.  Anyway, the local busybody comes into the blacksmith shop and picks up a horseshoe that the smith has left on the anvil to cool (it is at black heat).  Of course, the busybody quickly drops the shoe and the smith asks, "A little hot for you?" to which the busybody replies, "No, it just doesn't take me long to look at a horse shoe." 

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Lenny:

No, assuming it is a higher carbon steel which is what is used for springs it, in its original state, has been hardened and tempered back to a springy state (blue in oxidation colors).  If you then heat it and anneal it you have drawn the temper and it will be soft and pliable but you would have to go through the hardening and tempering process to get it to a springy state again. Technically, it has to do with the various crystal states of the metal but the simple answer to your question is "no."

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Many, many years ago when I worked in the power department of Inland Steel in East Chicago, IN we had a lot of hot pipes carrying live steam.  Some pipes were insulated, some were not.  The old hands taught me to test any pipe you were going to touch, e.g. if you were going to use it as a hand hold, with the back of the fingers or hand for the same reasons mentioned previously but also, if you did get burned, having a burn on the back of your hand was not as disabling as on the front.  A burn on the palm of your hand would very likely be a lost time injury while one on the back of your hand would probably be just an inconvenience.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

"Lies, d-----d lies, and statistics"

PWS:  That's much nicer and more impressive than the form letter with Nixon's printed signature that I got when I got back from Viet Nam.  I have great respect for all the ANZACs.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Wj:

You got me to a tee re military history.  The military history portion of my library runs 4-500 volumes.  And that doesn't count books that might or might not classify as military history, e.g. books on medieval armor, it's manufacture and re-creation.

You might might check to see if your old unit(s) has/have a website.  My old Viet Nam company has a website that I visit fairly often.  However, of the guys there were in VN before I was.  That said, there is a coffee group here in Laramie that I was invited to join and one of the other participants was in my company, different platoon, when I was there.  We were able to compare notes on some of the fire fights were both in.  That is the first time I have encountered anyone who was that close to me in time and space.

GNM

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Dear Frosty,

There is a great obsidian site in central OR called Glass Buttes.  It is off US 20 about 72 miles east of Bend, OR and about 50 miles west of Burns, OR.  The access roads may be too rugged for an RV but I have collected black and mahogany obsidian cobbles in the road fill along US 20.  One turn off is located at 43*35'23.55"N, 120*04'01.71"W.  Almost all of the land is BLM and anyone can collect up to 250 pounds of obsidian per year.  I have only collected black and mahogany but there are apparently other colors and varieties in the area and some other interesting minerals.  Mercury ore was mined in the area in the 1950s.

If you get travelling in the lower 48 and get as far east as WY let me know.

GNM

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand." 

I will say that, personally, I have resolved any conflicts between science and faith.  To paraphrase Arthur C. Clarke, the universe is not only stranger than you imagine, it is stranger than you can imagine.

Frosty, there have been research showing that there are deep bed rock canyons below the Greenland ice cap.  Within the last week a paper has come out proposing that these are the result of glacial outburst floods when Greenland was partially free of ice.  Yes, the channeled scab lands are a very cool feature.  There are places in the Williamette Valley in Oregon where there are piles of large boulders that have their source in Canada and were transported there in icebergs that floated down in the Bretz floods and were stranded as the water backed up behind the coast ranges up the Williamette River valley.  The glacial outburst floods are an elegant explanation for many unusual features in eastern Washington.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

As a geologist I would not waste my time on anything with Dr. Steve Austin's name on it.  He is a creationist who believes in a young earth (less than 10,000 years old) and is the chair of the Geology Department of the Institute of Creation Research in Dallas, TX.  He has been active in promoting a Noah's Flood interpretation of the geology of the Grand Canyon.  I will not waste any of the time I have left on this earth on his brand of snake oil. 

"Pa went to sleep and the hogs et him."

Dear Welshj,

To be perfectly accurate "Garry Owen" is the motto, greeting, and marching song of the 7th Cavalry Regiment.  We had the 1/7 and 3/7 in the 1st Cav. Div. when I was in Viet Nam.  It is the song the band played as LTC George A. Custer and the 7th rode out of Ft. Abraham Lincoln in 1876 on their way to their appointment with history at the Little Big Horn.  The Cavalry in general may have appropriated the phrase but it properly only belongs to the 7th Cav.

Even though it was a Cavalry Division I wore the crossed rifles and the Combat Infantryman's Badge of the Infantry, not the crossed sabers of the Cav. and we had Companies and Battalions, not Troops and Squadrons.  Odd mixing of the terminology and traditions of two different branches.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

To add to the roll call:

I was an Infantry Platoon Leader with 1st Plt, C Co, 1st Bn, 12th Cav, 1st Cavalry Division (Airmobile) in Viet Nam 1970-71. Part way through my tour the most of the 1st Cav went back to the US.  I didnt have enough time in country to go with the unit and was sent up north to Da Nang with the 196th Infantry Brigade of the 23d Infantry Division (Americal).   After my return to the states I joined the Wyoming Army National Guard and finally retired as a Lieutenant Colonel in the early '90s.

I tried to attach a photo of myself in Viet Nam, 1971 but the file may have been too large.  If I can reduce it and IFI will accept it I will put it up in a subsequent post.

"All gave some, some gave all."  

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Dear Jennifer,

Back when I work in the steel mills in S. Chicago we used a Brinnell hardness tester on the material before it was shipped.  It pressed a hardened ball into the steel and measured the deformation to arrive at the Brinnell scale number.  However, the test left a small dimple in the steel.  I assume that this would not be an acceptable result in a custom knife although it would probably be OK in a custom tool.  Has testing progressed to the point that it does not leave a mark on the steel?  If so, do you test different areas of a blade or tool e.g. the back and near edge of a blade, to arrive at an ideal?

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand." 

The Colorado county I formerly worked for assigned addresses based on where a driveway intersected a county road, not the location of the residence.  The last 3 digits were a fraction of a mile from the county road intersection to the east. e.g. if you were halfway between county roads 15 and 16 on County Road R (numbered roads run N-S, lettered roads E-W) your address would be 15500 Co. Rd. R..  It's a little more interesting if the county terrain isn't flat and the roads aren't on a grid but this system helps emergency services find the entrance to a rural driveway at night or in low visibility conditions by watching their odometer.

GNM

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

I was always asking my wife if I bought her 200 pounds of 0000 steel wool if she would spin it and knit/weave/crochet me an anvil.  I never could get her to take me up on it.

Dear All,

I am posting this link primarily for those IFI members who are in, as Thomas Powers puts it, a steel-wool relationship.  I really understand this since my late wife was an accomplished spinner, weaver, and fiber author.  My theory is that craft is attracted to craft.  Someone who has a love of working with their hands will be attracted to someone with the same inclination.

Here is a very interesting article about the things that have been found in a melting ice patch/glacier in Norway:

http://www.thehistoryblog.com/archives/58379#comments

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

GNM

Dear Latticino,

So, you are saying that an owner cannot expect a reliable and accurate cost estimate for a project from a design team/architectural firm because there are so many variables.  I understand that it is a complex process and if rushed accuracy suffers.  However, from an owner's perspective it is frustrating to have experienced professionals be unwilling to stand behind what they have been paid to produce.  Also, I understand that there have to be lots of communication between an owner and a design team to hammer out what can be done within the available budget and to set reasonable expectations.  Do you have any suggestions how an owner can get a reliable estimate of the cost of a project?

Also, you should note that the remedy that I have requested if the bids come in too high is that the design team/architect revise the project to fit the budget, not carry the cost of the excess which certainly would be unreasonable.

The expectation of the owner is that he/she/it is paying for both a physical design and the professional expertise of an accurate cost estimate.  

Also, to respond to your list of variables:  A) Most local building codes are variations on the model of the various editions of the International Building Codes modified for local conditions.  There are exceptions where a local building code has been amended extensively over decades but for the most part but for the most part they are variations on a theme.  I would expect knowledge of local building codes to be part of the professional experience or part of the research in coming up with a design.  B ) Groundwater conditions and floodplain designation are two different things.  One is a local physical condition, somewhat similar to soil conditions and possibly requiring engineering or hydrological investigations.  Whether a site is in the 100 year flood plain is easily determined by consulting the local Flood Plain Hazard maps and checking the local flood plain regulations to determine what impact the flood plain restrictions will have on a project, e.g. generally, no basements allowed in the flood plain or the 1st floor may need to be elevated above the base flood elevation by a certain amount.

GNM  

Latticino:

This is why project owners hire design/architect firms, to design a project and give an expert opinion on how much it is going to cost.  There are two basic approaches:  A) the owner can say we want a factory, office building, house, etc. of X size and with Y features, how much will it cost? or B ) (And this is the scenario with which I am most familiar) the owner says that we need a new building of some sort and we have $Z to spend, what can we get?  In both of these scenarios the owner is relying on the expertise of designer to accurately estimate the cost.  Any decent size design firm has a wealth of expertise and experience as to how much an office building, factory, warehouse, home, etc. is going to approximately cost per square foot from past and concurrent projects and should be able to give a pretty accurate answer and should be willing to stand behind that answer.  This is part of why they are in business and is part of their stock in trade.

Example:  About 20 years ago the county that I was working for needed a new Human Services building.  The county voters approved a bond issue of $X.  We hired a large Denver architectural firm to design the building.  After many meetings about what we wanted/needed they came up with a design that was estimated to be within our budget.  When it was bid out the lowest bid was about 40% higher than the estimated cost.  We had to dramatically cut back on the scope of the project to get the cost within budget.  The excuse was that the cost of steel had gone up.  IMO that is something of which the designers should have been aware and should have taken into consideration. 

GNM

Cheech:  Are you sure that it is a RR spike?  I have seen harrow teeth exactly that shape and about the same size.  If it was old enough it could have been made our of wrought iron.  By the late 19th century when steel became cheaper they would have been fairly high carbon steel.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Rockstar:

The terms RFP and RFB get used a lot incorrectly.  Purchasing agents/officers often do not know the difference.  If it is labelled an RFP but has bid language and commitments it is really and RFB.  Also, purchasing agents often get testy if it is pointed out that their standard forms have legal flaws.  They claim that this language has been used for years without any problems.  As an attorney I will point out that just because there has not been a problem does not mean that there will not be a problem in the future and do they want their name on it if there is a problem and they rejected legal advice to change it.

The problem with inaccurate cost estimates by the design team is that a governmental entity often has a fixed amount, e.g. the net amount of a bond issue, that it cannot exceed no matter what.  In Colorado that would mean going back to the voters and asking for more money.  I always have tried to put language in the contract with the architect that if the bid exceeds the estimate by X%, usually 10%, that the architect will revise the scope of the project and the design at their own expense.  I've had architects squawk that that is not in the standard AIA contract but I've usually been able to convince them that estimating the cost of a project is part of their professional expertise for which we are hiring them and if they don't have enough confidence in their own professional ability that maybe they should be in another line of work.  Also, I have found that the standard AIA contracts, as to be expected, are very much in favor of the architects but don't do a very good job of protecting either the contractor or the project owner.  On a large project I have spent days revising the standard AIA contracts to protect the project owner and be fair to the contractors and subs.

This is probably beyond the scope of a blacksmithing forum but I will try to add some relevance by saying that the same principles involved in a contact for a multi-million dollar construction project apply to a contract or subcontract for hand forged railings or handles as part of the big project.  Even a small blacksmith shop has to go through the same estimation and bid process for a couple dozen hinges and 50 handles.  It is on a smaller scale, of course, but a small shop could be hurt as much by the failure of a several thousand dollar contract as a larger company would be by having to eat or litigate under a multi-million dollar contract for a big project.

If I ever found out that an architect or design firm had intentionally low balled a project figuring that the over runs would just be added on I would seriously look at a possible fraud action.  Also, I would put the word out to other governmental entities what kind of problems we had with X firm and the other governmental entities may want to consider what happened with us when they are looking for similar services.  I sure would not have wanted to be associated with the over runs on the Denver VA hospital.  IMO, that would be a professional black eye of the worst kind not to mention any ethical considerations.  I certainly would not want to have a conversation with the Attorney Regulation Counsel about why I approved a contract that ended up costing my client multi-millions of dollars.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."   

Thomas:

One of my favorite astronomical posters is a mosaic of photos of the Milky Way from both the northern and southern hemispheres and titled "The home galaxy as seen from the home planet."

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Dear Rockstar,

A couple more things to consider when looking at a project/proposal from a government entity:  As you say, find out how it is being financed.  If it is by bonds find out where in the bonding process it is.  It can often take a considerable period of time between approval of the bonds by the governing body or the electorate (depending on the state) and actually having the money available.  Also, find out what the architect estimated the cost to be.  I have seen more than one project dramatically cut back when the architect designed for project costing $X and when the bids came in the real cost was $X plus a considerable amount.  Finally, and I'm sure that you know this but I'm putting it in for other folk:  Know the difference between a Request for Proposal and a Request for Bid.  By submitting the latter you have committed to a legal obligation and contract if the bid is accepted.  In the former, there is nothing firm, it is just the entity testing the waters and getting an idea of how much something will cost.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Frosty: 

Back when I worked in a hard rock mine we called a hammer like that a "single jack."  One that required two hands was a "double jack."  There are old mining towns in Colorado that still have hand drilling contests during the summer.  I suspect there are in Alaska too.  For someone drilling with a double jack and a shaker (the person who holds and rotates the drill bit) I'm reminded of the verse in the "John Henry" song, "John Henry said to his shaker, "Now, boy, you'd better pray. 'Cause if I miss with this nine pound hammer tomorrow will will be you're buryin' day."

Blackraptor:

The biggest thing in learning to be a blacksmith is the hand/eye coordination of where to hit the hot metal and how hard to get it to move how you want it to.  It is sort of like learning to play a video game.  The best way to learn it is just to get metal hot and hit it.  You will make lots of mistakes and take the long way around to finish something but with time the skill comes.  We are all still learning.  Some of us are still learning after years and decades of doing it.

There are a lot of good videos on Youtube and some really bad ones too.  Watch carefully and then try to repeat it yourself.  You will develop the muscle memory for a task which lasts a lot longer and imprints deeper than just watching something and trying to recall it.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Dear Cannon Cocker,

I'm not sure that is the Black Hills in the background.  It looks a bit more like the Pacific Northwest.  If I am wrong it is probably the snow making the high country look higher.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

I think that some of this is due to the fact that Americans really don't know how to negotiate or haggle.  In parts of the world where negotiated prices on everything from a chicken to a car are common everyone knows the ground rules and expects unreasonably high and low amounts to be part of the deal.  Americans and many other "Westerners" are used to fixed prices, take it or leave it.  They are used to the seller putting a particular price on an item and the buyer has to pay that if they want it.

In the situation mentioned I suspect that the seller wants to negotiate but doesn't really know how to play the game.  Also, they may not really know the fair market value of their item.  So, the first few offers received are research.  After several potential buyers offer around $X and are rejected as low ball the seller will think, "Oh, maybe that is about what the market will bear"" and accept the next offer of $X.

Sometimes, the way to counter the response of "that's not enough" is to reply, "What will you take?" That at least gets a number out of the seller's mouth.  If he or she won't commit to a number it is clear that they really don't know how to negotiate and it is probably better to walk away.  You can always leave it at, "Well, my offer of $X will stand for Y time.  If you change your mind here is my number."  Beyond that, it is a waste of the buyer's time to try to educate a seller on how to negotiate.  It is like trying to teach a pig to sing.  It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

All that said, I will rarely negotiate on my iron work.  I price things by how much time I have into them, not what I think is the maximum price I can get.  So, if someone offers me less than what is marked on an item I tell them how I arrived at a particular price and to accept less it means I am reducing what my time and skill is worth by the hour.  Few people will argue with that.  I may give a small discount for large orders or I may reduce the price if for some random reason I like the person but not because I want to make a sale, any sale.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."