Chuck Wright
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Hi Steve, I wanted to give you some follow up regarding the young blacksmith with silicosis from way back in January....he is awaiting further testing for some new nodules that have appeared, otherwise the lung fields have progressed as expected in their appearance. If no evidence of cancerous growth has appeared and he is still a silicosis patient, he will be awaiting heart lung bypass. Given his age and health outside of the silicosis, he is expected to make a full recovery. I do have a follow up X-ray that I need to remove his patient info for HIPPA considerations....Sorry about my prolonged absence, in that time span, I had lost my Mom and I finally am in remission from my leukemia.
Hope to hear from you soon,
Chuck
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Hi SLAG, this is DocChuck. I had drawn some unexpected fire when I shared concerns of silicosis in uncoated ceramic wool insulated gas forges.....I wanted to update you on the young smith's condition....
I wanted to give you some follow up regarding the young blacksmith with silicosis from way back in January....he is awaiting further testing for some new nodules that have appeared, otherwise the lung fields have progressed as expected in their appearance. If no evidence of cancerous growth has appeared and he is still a silicosis patient, he will be awaiting heart lung bypass. Given his age and health outside of the silicosis, he is expected to make a full recovery. I do have a follow up X-ray that I need to remove his patient info for HIPPA considerations....Sorry about my prolonged absence, in that time span, I had lost my Mom and I finally am in remission from my leukemia.
Hope to hear from you soon,
Chuck
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Dr. Wright,
I am sorry to hear the news that your mother died. You have my sympathy.
Late middle age brings on the death of parents. (and most of their generation) It is ineluctable, but sad nonetheless. I have been there so I can empathize.
Good news about your remission.
Yesterday, I read a report of a new breakthrough in immuno-therapy. They used CRSPR- (cas9?), to enter T-lymphosite cells, (T-car cells) to edit their genome to destroy melanoma cells etc.
In vivo experiments should follow shortly. No virus were used.
Check out,
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/07180711131204.htm.
P.M. me with your e-mail address so I can keep you apprised of such developments, off this site. I read the science and medical press reports for about 4 hours each day.
Such correspondence, here is, I think, not suitable for a blacksmithing site.
Good luck to your silicosis patient.
SLAG.
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Hi Glenn, I wanted to give you some follow up regarding the young blacksmith with silicosis from way back in January....he is awaiting further testing for some new nodules that have appeared, otherwise the lung fields have progressed as expected in their appearance. If no evidence of cancerous growth has appeared and he is still a silicosis patient, he will be awaiting heart lung bypass. Given his age and health outside of the silicosis, he is expected to make a full recovery. I do have a follow up X-ray that I need to remove his patient info for HIPPA considerations....Sorry about my prolonged absence, in that time span, I had lost my Mom and I finally am in remission from my leukemia.
Hope to hear from you soon,
Chuck
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I've gotten several messages all asking what the best possible clothes should be worn while forging...well at first approximation, it seems rather simple...but after some thought, It's not quite that easy after all. So here's the original response and reasonings. So let's get the recommendations done first and then I'll tell you the reasonings behind these directives. First and foremost, the safest are 100% cotton clothes and second, leather. There that was simple and painless. So what do I have against synthetic fibers? Its quite simple. It is a given that slag, sparks, scale, and molten metals are going to be shot all over the immediate area, you will have punctate particles burning through the clothing, and possibly melt it. Thus rendering your clothing no longer useful in preventing burns. Now I'm certain all of us had small pinpoint burns on hour hands parts of our face and exposed limbs for certain. However, under and surrounding the scab is viable tissue that in no way, can stand up to the punishment of flying sparks. I will refrain from using the " degree" classification for now. Lets assume you are forging in the nude, I can't imagine anyone trying this out to see what the results would be. Lets imagine that you are welding in the nude, or forge welding and the first few hammer strikes are sending molten slag and flux all over the place...And given the height of the anvil, you can imagine what your first victims went through. If you are then covered in cotton clothing and leather, the sparks fly in every direction and if burning a hole into cotton (easily done) or leather (not to easy) you two will experience some painful side effects that will heal all by itself. Now lets throw on some clothing made with fibers from nylon, or containing nitrogen with in the fiber molecule. If this were to catch fire or just smolder while you are working close to the flames, when it combusts, any materials containing nitrogen and carbon will have produced cyanide in high enough concentrations to render you toxic if not removed. If the fibers are chemically similar to PVC and the like, combustion of these materials will release hydrogen chloride. When dissolved in water based solutions, like perspiration, fluids in the lungs etc, the HCl will form hydrochloric acid as a byproduct and chemically burn the tissues. Lungs that are burnt within the tissue hardly ever heal leaving pockets of hydrochloric aside furthering the burning destructive process. Depending on your exposure and response time, it is highly toxic and potentially ruin your ability to breathe. If your clothing is a mix of cotton and synthetic fibers, you still run an elevated risk of toxin inhalation...and if the direct damage doesn't harm you the immediately, it is highly probable that the inflammatory response will wind up filling your lungs with fluid resulting in literally drowning and never set foot in a pool. So what is the deal with even cotton, well its a good question, on its own, it is very safe to make clothing etc from. And if burnt will go through similar injurious patters as above. But now we have to consider the combustion by product of not only cotton but any material containing carbon. Without the process of replacing the local air volumes say during breezes, incomplete burning/ oxidation of any carbon containing material will be carbon monoxide. Now to finish up the carbon based fibers particularly cotton. When is it not safe by any means. Well think of this. I had patient who presented with a story consistent with a flash burn. Given his history, I wanted to dig a bit further into his story at presentation. Bottom line was that his pants caught fire and went up in less than a second. His wife said that they were talking while he was forging when his cotton denim pants erupted in flame. Yes , his genitals were damaged so bad they needed plastic surgery to come in to cover the wound with cultured skins. What caused the flash burn....well that was still up for questioning. After some preliminary treatment and pain meds, I went back to continue his interview and he referred to his pants and himself as a walking flame thrower. Well not quite exactly the point I wanted to make but it will work for now. It turns out his other favorite hobby was refining gold from a wide assortment of discarded electronics and circuit boards. The light bulb went off.....so much so that you could see my propeller beanie just whizzing around in a fury. I asked about his exposure to nitric acid...I had just learned of its use in refining gold . He had spilled some on his pants and he hung them out to dry. And dry they did, so he puts them back on and immediately as the fire in the forge ignited so did his pants. I put a small piece of cotton in a sample of nitric acid and got a similar response. At that point it made me a believer of some of these stories I was getting.....The reason is that the spill inadvertently produced nitrocellulose or flash cotton. DocChuck
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There's no question that fire is an ever present tool at our disposal; however, it is an ever present risk as the above article mentions.
DocChuck
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Hi Folks, Doc here again with a helpful tip. We've all had the experience where we run out of fuel at the worst possible, most inopportune time. Last Christmas, I was building my lab manager a cook crane to swing pots, pans, kettle, grill surface into and out of the fires path. This required some very precise bending. This was accomplished with very precise localized heating with an oxygen-acetylene torch. The first heat and bend went perfectly. After that, the gas was gone. After some pondering, I realized I was tripping over the solution. Crank up the TIG torch and keep it moving in those e same plane as defined by your measuremetnt marks being careful to not melt your way in. It works incredibly well and easy to pick up. Give it a try...no more waiting till Monday for your gas refills!!!!
Thanks, Hope this helps.
DocChuck
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I was asked by another member about the efficacy of companies reporting "Bio-Soluble" as a claim and defining term of their material with hopes that the consumer be urged to consider this safe. Well the reading through the company literature and MSDS sheets was quite interesting and confirmed our suspicions. No where in the MSDS sheets, or company safety records, lab analysis, etc was there a strict legal definition of the term "BIO-SOLUBLE" There are plenty of claims but none are legally enforceable and therefore not subject to "legal misrepresentation". The claims are that the material is "Body Soluble" which is true, at some point the chemicals that make up the fibers can be dissolved in cytoplasm, interstitial fluid, intracellular fluid between adjacent cells in any organ (including lungs) etc...however that's not where the fibers of any material end up....then end up in the air ways and air pockets (alveoli) and respiratory bronchi and bronchioles. The fibers can cut their way into more lung tissue damaging the tissue and in turn, the cells of your immune system, particularly macrophages, will become activated and in an attempt to engulf and destroy these fibers, they will die and split open leaving tons of chemicals that will further enhance the inflammatory pathway. Leading to granulomatous disease of the lung secondary to silicosis and if unchecked, mesothelioma (much more common when present in a smoker) and other forms of parenchymal lung cancers. In fact all of the ceramic fibers had similar effects. The papers that were published that supported the claims of the "soluble" fiber materials were often funded by the parent company who made the material. Hardly an unbiased and ethical study...so case in point. Treat all ceramic fibers regardless of their company claims. Require ridgizier and then coat the material to limit fiber inhalation. Other PPE is recommended such as respirators or air filters and as always, if you are going to use a fan, place the fan closest to an exit window or door blowing the air out of the room. IF blowing into the room, you will make the fibers disperse more and increase your risk of inhaling them. It is common during forge use to compromise the lining of the forge either by workpieces or tools puncturing through the coating or dragging the coating through cutting into the lining. If that happens, after the forge is cooled off , reapply the coating and/or rigidizer based on the level of damage. If it is extensive damage it would be best to reline the forge with new materials and start over. I hope this answers some more questions. I realize that these answers may go against what you have been told and there are some that do not believe these claims. All I can say is that it is your lungs and your decision. I have no financial stake in any of these companies or forge suppliers and therefore am operating ethically and in full disclosure. I am in no way responsible for your use or misuse of your materials. I can only make suggestions for your safe usage and enjoyment of our craft. Many Thanks for your attention. Be safe, Be happy, and Forge on.
Charles Wright MD. MS. , Emergency, Critical Care, and Transport Medicine CBCPA/EMS, Pulmonary Physiology NHLBOwner (Modern Blacksmithing) Admin(Blacksmithing For Beginners)Admin(International Blacksmithing)Admin Blacksmithing For Beginners With DisabilitiesAdminBlacksmithing For Beginners - Veterans and First Responders.
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I was asked by another member about the efficacy of companies reporting "Bio-Soluble" as a claim and defining term of their material with hopes that the consumer be urged to consider this safe. Well the reading through the company literature and MSDS sheets was quite interesting and confirmed our suspicions. No where in the MSDS sheets, or company safety records, lab analysis, etc was there a strict legal definition of the term "BIO-SOLUBLE" There are plenty of claims but none are legally enforceable and therefore not subject to "legal misrepresentation". The claims are that the material is "Body Soluble" which is true, at some point the chemicals that make up the fibers can be dissolved in cytoplasm, interstitial fluid, intracellular fluid between adjacent cells in any organ (including lungs) etc...however that's not where the fibers of any material end up....then end up in the air ways and air pockets (alveoli) and respiratory bronchi and bronchioles. The fibers can cut their way into more lung tissue damaging the tissue and in turn, the cells of your immune system, particularly macrophages, will become activated and in an attempt to engulf and destroy these fibers, they will die and split open leaving tons of chemicals that will further enhance the inflammatory pathway. Leading to granulomatous disease of the lung secondary to silicosis and if unchecked, mesothelioma (much more common when present in a smoker) and other forms of parenchymal lung cancers. In fact all of the ceramic fibers had similar effects. The papers that were published that supported the claims of the "soluble" fiber materials were often funded by the parent company who made the material. Hardly an unbiased and ethical study...so case in point. Treat all ceramic fibers regardless of their company claims. Require ridgizier and then coat the material to limit fiber inhalation. Other PPE is recommended such as respirators or air filters and as always, if you are going to use a fan, place the fan closest to an exit window or door blowing the air out of the room. IF blowing into the room, you will make the fibers disperse more and increase your risk of inhaling them. It is common during forge use to compromise the lining of the forge either by workpieces or tools puncturing through the coating or dragging the coating through cutting into the lining. If that happens, after the forge is cooled off , reapply the coating and/or rigidizer based on the level of damage. If it is extensive damage it would be best to reline the forge with new materials and start over. I hope this answers some more questions. I realize that these answers may go against what you have been told and there are some that do not believe these claims. All I can say is that it is your lungs and your decision. I have no financial stake in any of these companies or forge suppliers and therefore am operating ethically and in full disclosure. I am in no way responsible for your use or misuse of your materials. I can only make suggestions for your safe usage and enjoyment of our craft. Many Thanks for your attention. Be safe, Be happy, and Forge on.
Charles Wright MD. MS. , Emergency, Critical Care, and Transport Medicine CBCPA/EMS, Pulmonary Physiology NHLBOwner (Modern Blacksmithing) Admin (Blacksmithing For Beginners) Admin (International Blacksmithing) Admin Blacksmithing For Beginners With Disabilities Admin Blacksmithing For Beginners - Veterans and First Responders.
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Hi Ede, Yes, the forge in question that started the discussion originally was "Devil's Forge" out of Lithuania.
