vanDoren

Thanks guys, I will figure some things out so that I will be able to ask your opinions on something more concrete...

Mikey, if I go with one of the forge plans I have in mind I will end myself with a forge chamber of about 300cu/in. Then there would be the baffles when I need a smaller volume. In the other thread you were suggesting two 1/2" burners for that arrangement. I was also looking at ribbon burners, they would work well but I would have to put two in a line and they need the blower too. From that I was picturing in my head a row of 4 burners, each with its own valve if I wished to not use some of them. Thats why I was thinking about something smaller than 1/2". I know this is a blacksmiths forum and that would be the forge main purpose but I wouldnt mind using the forge for some goldsmithing also, the biggest the range of temperatures I can get the more useful it becomes for my work. If then I can use the burners assembly in open air too even better as it would be useful for some other kind work completely unrelated to metalworking, but that would be only a bonus. To put a picture to it, the burners would be a sort of very small version of something like this: or similar to two of these side by side with more room between the nozzles:

Frosty, I dont get the formula1 thing, honestly... maybe because of my past jobs habit, or simply the way I deal with stuff I use, I cant just look at my tools etc and not think "how does this work and why its built this way?"... I've always done that. The fact that the net is full of bad advice is another reason for me to try to learn more. So, for now, I've just asked some questions, some come from reading the "university stuff" and some from material from the net, a lot of which is from this forum, and I really appreciate the help given by everyone that replied.

Mikey, I see, im keeping an eye on the micro burner thread also. How small you think the rebuilt nozzle could go? I was looking for something less than 1/2". I saw there is a thread already on how small you can go but didnt give much examples. At this point im starting to connect the dots on a few things. What I cant find yet is how to size the orifice in respect to the mixingtube/nozzle. The fine mesh in the nozzle stops a burn-back right? Is it possible to build the mixing tube+nozzle directly casting them in refractory and make only the venturi in metal?

I keep saying MAPP even for the MAP/PRO when in reality they are just different things. About the jets, what I've been told is that MAPP burners can be used with MAP/PRO, so as far as the burner parts go... jmccustomknives, yes gathering knowledge about these things is what im trying to do, for sure I dont want (or can afford) getting hurt... The experience of others has a very high value. Mikey98118, yes what I was wondering about is the possibility of turning commercial nozzles from other gasses (butane mostly) to propane... I dont intend to use other gasses in the forge. Thanks for the torch model, although here in Canada costs more than double that... I know people might think "just build one from a plan and call it the day"... But behind my questions is not only the need to build the forge and that I havent found a plan that is perfect for my needs, its also personal curiosity...

Hi Neil, being an ex modelmaker (jewellery industry models and props, there was a lot of work for people like me in the part of Italy where I come from, not so much where Im now) I did stick with jewellery and props people, even glassworkers (glassworkers have very nice stuff). Nice guys but when you talk about tinkering with torches they tend to avoid the subject. Blacksmiths seem more willing to discuss... What you mean with "try to run their Forges without any ends"?

I searched around the net, searched for drawings and section of nozzles, even taken apart a couple nozzles, but gathered little... Anybody knows what is the difference in working, design and components between butane, propane and MAPP torches? (the burner assembly) Looking at the nozzles themselves I see different orifices, reading on the subject I found that in part those have the job of mixing the fuel with the hair but the big part of the design is to shape the flame in a certain way (like a mantle of slower moving gasses around a column of faster moving gasses to obtain a pencil flame of a definite shape etc)... Googling the question I only found a couple threads in forums discussing it and no definive answer (someone mentioned nozzle orifices design, and others told him he was mistaking that for whats needed with acetylene...). What I know is: - burners I find in stores mention if they are for propane or MAPP, the butane ones sometimes look different (but only sometimes) - Some people used propane burners with MAPP and complained that the burner just stopped working (no more gas coming out the torch... some people said they used old torches with both without any issue though) - MAPP burners all work with both MAPP and propane without issue. - Noone mentions using butane nozzles with propane. - In some cases material used is brass with all of them (not sure about the valve itself) - Some use the swirl idea some dont but its not strictly related to the kind of gas they use From some more reading I see that the flame speed of the 3 is very similar and that butane wants a bit more air than propane for a good burn, but im not sure if that means that the only difference lays in a different size jet orifice or just that the way the venturi is sized, to have the right mix (noone of the nozzles I have seen use a choke... but nozzles shouldnt be difficult to modify adding a simple choke or switching the jet if the mix ratio is the whole point of the question). The other thing I was thinking is that maybe the whole difference is in the valve and its parts, like the way they handle the pressure or possibility that some materials in it is degraded by one gas and not another.

Thanks guys, thats some very useful info. It seems the more I read about these things the more questions come up in my head... and there is a surprising lack of general informations regarding burners and all their components.

Frosty, sorry the sentence "considering a propane tank forge etc etc" cut the paragraph in half and I dont seem to be allowed to edit it What I meant is: if in a propane tank forge I sometimes reduce the size of the chamber (for example sliding some firebrics inside) will the burner in the forge still work or I dont have much freedom in how much I can turn it down (just to put a number lets say I have ONLY a 3/4" burner available) and the only possibility is having a second smaller burner (and at that point its easier to have a second smaller forge like a 2bricks with its own burner)? PS: the local fire dept wouldnt like much an homemade burner, thats one of the reasons Im a bit stuck with certain things

Hi, I'm just starting learning about propane forges, reading the old threads and various articles so be patient. From what I understand burners are sized to suit the forge chamber volume, but big burners can be somewhat tuned down to serve a small forge. I'm considering a propane tank forge (mainly because I have a tank I could use and weed burner), if I go that route I'd like to create the nozzle directly into the lining and take off the one on the weed burner (I will still need it to burn weeds afterwards). Occasionally I will need to block part of the chamber to get down to a 2bricks setup kind of chamber size. Are there particular considerations in design and positioning/orientation of the builtin nozzle I should take into account? is it even worth the effort or its easier to just have a separate 2bricks forge? And finally in a 2bricks forge can a standard torch like the Bernzomatic UL2317 be used with a big propane tank? Right now Im using 4 fire bricks, the hard ones, and the weed burner, I'd need something more efficient and less precarious but, for various reasons, I have to use what I have at hand. If these questions are all been already asked I'll delete them... from a search it doesnt seem so but I will have to spend several weekends to go through all the info in the forum