cranky

Okay so I drew up a quick and dirty design based on what I think charles was suggesting the 12 inch dim. is ID. outside of pipe is not shown black block is a firebrick floor I have no idea how to calculate volume but the 8" inside diameter by 9 inches long should be about 550? I know it is heavier than need be.......and maybe taller than need be.....but does this look like a feasible design? Drawing1.pdf

edit Yes my bad 9 X 36 not 13...too many numbers in my head so charles your reply gives me another question. is there an advantage using lighter walled material for the shell over heavy walled other than weight? so how about 12" Id pipe bottom cut off with some flat plate welded in to give me 9 inch square floor 2 inches of insulation and two firebricks put on top? this would all be 3/8 steel actually would I even need insulation under the hard firebrick if the forge was sitting on nonflammable stand? this could prevent flux from eating the insulation, on other hand it would also make for easy repair when needed due to flux melt

YES Sir, that was a joke

Charles may I be the first to tip my hat to you on your promotion..... i know I'm new here put I think you were promoted quite some time back and everyone failed to tell you I like you, your pretty gosh darn alright in my book and plenty crotchetiness as far as I am concerned may I suggest a bit of salve and a tad bit less time in the saddle sir?

Hey good news guys......I've been thinking again I think the admins should rename this entire post and make it a sticky for newbies......."THE PROPER WAY TO MAKE A USELESS FORGE" CopyRight Cranky So here is where I now stand with my great big, forge a lifesize model of the earth, forge..... I have a piece of 18 ga stainless steel 9 by 13 inches which I intend to roll into a 11 inch cylinder with a 1/2 inch overlap or so which I will then pop rivet on the bottom.*with my abundance of toys the thing I am still missing is a TIG welder and I have never welded SS with a mig and not even sure a person can but am assuming it can be done.) We do have TIG at work but we have a very strict rule that any and all government work not being done for the government results in termination of employment ( gov. work is what we codename any and all home projects) After adding in 2 inches of ceramic fiber insulation I should have have a 7" dia. by 9" long forge body resulting in a fire box that is 346 cubic inches. So according to Frosty's formula for burner size, I am in the top tier of a 3/4 inch T burner..;... easy peasy not so sleazy! Except inquiring minds need to know some things! this is where my alter ego comes in. (1) seeing as we are near the larger size limit of a 3/4" burner would it hurt to step up to the 1" burner....other than a bit of wasted fuel usage and back pressure issue which I am assuming could be overcome with a larger opening on the ends? (2) Assuming the general answer to #1 is "quit being a cranky and just use a 3/4 " stupid" would it be of any benefit to use (2) 1/2 inch burners located 3 inches from the ends in order to more evenly distribute the heat throughout the chamber? perhaps shooting one in from each side at an angle (3) Lets assume the answer to #3 is "Cranky you're a frigging genius why didn't I ever think of that" Yeah I know I'm pressing my luck with this thought but how bout shooting (3) 1/2 burners in, 1 centered on the length and one each side 2.25" on center off the first, again from an angle bouncing the flame off the opposite wall, once again in order to more evenly distribute the heat and also improve the needs of heat from being at the larger end of a 3/4" allowance? (4) Quit being a cranky and just use a 3/4" burner stupid Second part of my question Instead of a cylindrical forge body would it behoove me to flatten down my forge allowing for a bit more floor space and possible wider working area, you know in case I ever decide to forge a battle axe intended to slay dragons with, just for more clarification if needed make a oval forge versus a round one So now I will await your answer's while I enjoy my lunch......one slice of pecan pie and one slice of apple pie with a big glass of milk to wash it all down....... no advice needed on this.... Thanks The Humbled Dave I also have to correct my statement about the availability of reducing T's.... I was at menards last night and bought a 1x3/4 T which they DID have on hand and a 6 inch 3/4 pipe both of which were proudly made in china and cost a tad bit more than the ones I ordered from supplyhouse.com and about the same if shipping is taken into account hey i had one more idea last night...... what you all think about going high tech and making Magnesium burner flares Cool huh?

once again forbidden Thor I love the quote has anyone ever met this engineer with the simple design? My favorite engineering quote is " An engineer is the person that walks into a room full of people and immediately knows he is the smartest person in the room" I once had a friend in our engineering department at work tell me I would be a great engineer based on this description......I think it had something to do with my renaming his department "The Herd Of Stupid People" or THOSP as aerospace loves their acronyms. In my life I wear a number of different hats as a farmer I subscribe to the KISS principle, time is money when something breaks get it fixed fast as possible who cares about form, fit or function, just get back in the field and make some money! At work form, fit and function are king. I get a overly complicated print to hold some overly complicated part that will repeatedly hold plus or minus .010 results for years to come, this is manufacturing tolerances. Tool Fab (my department) tolerances are 1/10 of factory specs so if a feature has +/- .010 the fixture I make must meet .001 +/- Everything I make at work first goes to Inspection to verify my work, and then goes Io Precision inspection to get double checked and then certified as meeting spec. So there I was at work, once again grinding down a 4" by 8" by 1" chunk of steel because it was .002 too thick, daydreaming about making a frosty T when I saw a picture of my mustang in my toolbox and thought to myself, If you port and polish the air intake and exhaust of a motor to increase airflow and hence increase power...... why not on a Frosty T. Then my mind just went to town and remembering a comment from Frosty that said, no two burners are the same or something close to that I thought.....Why not? I agree with the rubber washer O-ring not being needed but this goes back to my car days where sucking lots of air is good.....sucking air from the wrong spot bad. Today I am at the farm so new rules... It would appear that getting the proper T for a Frosty might be a bit difficult looking online the three big stores Menards, Lowes, and Home Depot don't carry the reducing T needed. looking though my own supply of crap shows none and the three hardware stores in my town don't carry them, my only choice is a plumber shop that has lots of them with a price nearly equal to the number of parts on hand...15 bucks each.... not to worry folks I have them ordered and on the way from www.supplyhouse.com 3.95 each so now we go full circle....has anyone ever made one of these using a standard T with a reducing bushing? Latticino Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my friction fit flare.....gonna have to rethink this one. I was tired, had just gotten off a 13 hour shift at work and driven 3.5 hours to get home (my "job" is 3, 12 hour days friday saturday sunday) and is about 200 miles from my house see I told you I really do live in two worlds Turbulence might have been the wrong word.... reducing friction and making the flow more uniform and symmetrical was my only thought.... as for Laminar Flow I have never met the guy so will withhold judgement rather he is friend or foe till a later date I think just for fun I will make a super duper Frosty T, a standard Frosty T as well as a sidearm burner and a super sidearm, hookup an air compressor at 15 pounds of pressure and just measure the amount of air flow from each as a comparison should work? now how to measure without involving a friend that uses a flowbench daily at work?

Lets try again One thing I have learned from working as a tool maker for a major aerospace manufacture is this.....Anything can and will be over designed and made overly complicated if you allow an engineer to look at it.....This is where I come in.... let me introduce you to my comic book superhero character his name does not exist....I'm more of the villain type, My comic book villain name is "THE COMPLICATOR" able to make the simple to build simple to use simple to own Frosty T difficult to create! The first thing we are gonna do is acquire our box of goodies, in our box we will find (1) 1" by 3/4" T this T will have a 1" run and a 3/4" chase (see I do pay attention) (1) 3/4 by 7" pipe, threaded on one end, both ends, or sans threads if you can cut them yourself (can you all hear Frosty yelling at me? I can " I said 6 inches you idiot not 7, 8 x the diameter of the pipe stupid that's 6" not seven sheesh what an idiot") I'm gonna put in my ear plugs and pretend I can't hear him for a bit and finally (1) 1/8 by 3 inch schedule 80 pipe same deal as last time threaded one or both ends or thread one end yourself..... yeah i know this stuff can be a bit hard to get but i have an abundant supply of it thanks to my uncle that worked for a railroad way back when as a pipefitter and managed to find a few odds and ends in his lunch box on occasion. And as my girlfriend, now wife has always said about breasts...."if you got em flaunt em" so go ahead fellows gawk at my pipe all you want first we are going to put our 3/4" by 7" (Frosty's face sure gets red when he yells) pipe into our lathe and we are going to cut that pesky weldment from the inside of the pipe, this is a twofold good thing as it will align the OD with the ID and smooth out the ID so there is no turbulence as the air and fuel mixture rush down this pipe. after this we will install our 1" by 3/4 " T onto our pipe.....make sure you don't take the pipe out of the lathe chuck, we want to keep that perfect alignment. Use a bit of pipe dope (but not the same pipe dope from high school days) and tighten pretty snug.....drill an appropriate hole in the top of the T so you can tap a 3/8 24 thread in the top of T and of course tap the hole..... Now we can remove pipe from lathe. now we are gonna put the 1/8 inch pipe into our lathe and turn one end down to .375 OD for about 2 inches.....I bet I'm not the only one saying "hey 3/8"... we could thread it 3/8 24" so lets do that, on the same end we can tap the ID 1/4 24 (or whatever size the mig tip is, I cant remember off the top of my head) insert mig tip into freshly threaded 1/4 inch hole and tighten, now install a jam nut onto 1/8 pipe and push a rubber washer for sealing on next now insert 1/8 pipe into 3/8 24 top of T and turn until you have reached an approximate length into the fitting.....tighten jam nut slightly Okay now this part I have not figured out all the way...Measure from the _________ (please fill in the space) down the pipe 6" and cut pipe. the space could be from the mig tip? (not very repeatable) the bottom of the T? top of the T? suggestions please thanks for your help and time Dave I'm sure I will think of more comments but much too tired right now For the flairs my plan is to cut a 12 degree angle onto a 1.5 inch heavy tube. heat some 1.25 SS tubing and using a press push my angled tube into the SS pipe....viola we have a good start on a flair....top side of this flair we will make a swage block and run the pipe down though the swage block reducing the Id diameter of the pipe till it slides on and can be held in place by friction fit these are my plans to try maybe they work.........maybe they won't? wont know till it is tried

Okay this is what i was trying to post last night when I was forbidden. How I want to build my frosty T Okay anyone doubting frosty's knowledge should read his comment that cursing ips dont do much good...... ive been cursing now for 24 hours and i still forbidden!

So whats with this forbidden crap?

How I want to build my frosty T.... (1) 1×1×3/4 inch T fitting (2) 3/4 inch by 7 inch pipe fitting

First off, I would like to say sorry for my previous posting. I feel as if I may of come across as thinking I know more then all of you. In no way do I feel this way.... I would not be here if I did not think this was a great source of infomation. My new plans are centered around a sheet of 36" by 9" stainless steel rolled into a 11" circle..... my main question here would be, is there any advantage to rolling a circle or would an eclipse or oval be more advantageous? If my math skills are correct this would equate to 3.5×3.5×3.1416×9=346cubic feet after adding in 2" of insulation. So according to frosty`s formula I am at the upper zone of the 3/4" burner. I have researched the frosty T burner on this site quite extensively and what i have not found is instructions on how to build them...what I have found is "those are instructions for the old style" bits and pieces here and there. What I would like to do with Frosty's permission and help is start a new reply to this post with my interperation of what i think his new style will be.... or if my thoughts will work or are any good..... Thanks for your time.

Whats with this forbidden crap? Elvirth Contact me please for some reason it says I am forbidden to post

Okay now maybe this is something I can sink my teeth into.....12Ga stainless steel sheet 9" wide 36" long rolled into a cylinder would give me a 9 X 11.5" dia if I'm not mistaken (funny math isn't one of my strong points and yet I use trig weekly and don't have a clue how to do it) add in 2 inches of kaowool and a brick on the floor we have 7.5" dia X 9" long minus the brick and space underneath it giving me a volume way under the magic 300 to 350 figure. Feel free to correct my math if you care too. One burner..... a few fire bricks for the ends and we are off and running? I buy all my barrels, at least until such time as I feel I can make one as good and as safe as the pro's.... I maybe ambitious but I ain't overly stupid Prepare to meet my ego.... with my skills I could make a sword, knife, hatchet along with a letter opener and still not be late for breakfast. I made a knife out of an old file way back when I was still in school and still use it.......why would anyone want to learn a new skill he already knows......if it ain't hard to do is it really worth doing? Everyday should be a learning experience. I am not going into production.......unless I get good enough at pattern welding in which case who knows the future? My enjoyment in these types of things comes from doing what very few other people can do..... I live on a farm started by my Great Grandfather, I lived here with my grandfather until he passed away in 1987 (still convinced that the tractor was a fad I might add) Both of these men were Farmers, Veterinarians and also did quite a lot of Ferrier work, they came from a time when broken things were not replaced, they were rebuilt and made better and stronger.... I was majorly amazed while at an auction nearby when the auctioneer was stopped while selling some horse tack, saddles, bridles, yokes and such and the owner of the stuff announced that it was all created by my grandfather and he thought instead of selling it he wanted to give it back to me... seems that frail little old man that I lived with was quite respected and trusted throughout our area. The last generation of farmers before myself......My uncle belonged to this group....Made most of their own equipment fixed anything they could and even quite a bit of stuff that should have not been able too...every last one of them was blacksmith, vet, mechanic, you name it they did it...... ever hear of Steiger Tractors? the steiger farm is 6 miles from my house and is the very first job I ever had in a machine shop. the present generation of farmers(mine) don't know how to weld, if the air conditioner in a combine quits working they shut it off till someone can fix it. they grew up with some money and they spend it like it is just paper or something......not me i'm old school , and my kids are as old school as I can make them, they both can drive a team of horses as well as a semi truck..... my daughter and her husband even live in the very same house her great great grandfather built. If any of you have plans to attend the Western Minnesota Steam Threshers Reunion in Rolag MN. labor day weekend I will be the guy standing at the blacksmith area asking a ton and a half of questions

And not to minimize the amount of work and knowledge that I will need to learn to make a sword.......I feel my truly lofty dream would be to go to the iron ore range of minnesota, pickup a couple pails of taconite ore bring it home and MAKE STEEL.....making my own steel for my very own gun would be beyond cool....so cool in fact It would make frosty shiver! has anyone ever forg welded different types of steel? I would also like to make some damascus consisting of layers of 4140,4640 and titanium I'm thinking it is not possible but I think I might try anyway

Thanks for the replies Guys, Ken let me assure you i am dead serious about doing this, I am not sure what a Friendly Troll is but can assume it means someone with nothing more planned then wasting a bunch of nice guys time........Taint Me....altho I am quite long winded and tend to lay the humour on quite thick at times, or at least try to, so let me try to be serious. First the TV show Forged In Fire was my first true interest in building a forge it is really the damascus steel aspect of it that really gets my attention and one of the very first posts that I read on here had some pictures of a couple damascus 1911 .45's made by the legendary Jesse James. Now don't get me wrong the dude has skills, by good has he got skills, but even bigger then his skill level is his ego. The evening he rolled out his copper bike was the very first time I said " If that joker can do it so can I" and promptly started making my own English Wheel and practiced with some sheet steel for a few weeks then started on my very own copper tank and oil tank for my bike....looks very cool but kind of sucks to ride on sunny days unless you have a welding helmet on. So one of the reasons That I wanted such a large forge is that I am quite an accomplished machinist (My ego may rival Jesse's) and firearms is my true hobby. Owning a 5axis Mazak horizontal mill and a Mori Seiki lathe with live tooling as well as a complete manual machine shop in my "hobby" shop which is where I have made a couple titanium AR15's as well as the beloved 1911 .45 as well as the same made from AMS 4640 which is a Nickel Aluminum Bronze Alloy that is fully heat treatable and looks cool as Frosty's winter time temp's and the only way I see to one up myself is go damascus! Now I freely admit I have never even attempted to fold steel like this. I am quite sure I can accomplish it. My plans are to use my 30 ton shop press fitted with a air over hydraulic jack.... I'm not sure if this will work but it is my plan A if Plan A fails I go to Plan B as soon as I figure out what that is. If it works as I think it will, I think I will want to try to forge two pieces at once.......pressing one while heating the second........ My reasoning for heavy wall pipe is simple.......I also farm and have a farm shop where I do all my dirty work which is where the forge will be located, during the busy seasons of spring summer and fall there is about 100% chance of something big being placed on top of anything not being used that day which I'm afraid would crush a paint can or stove pipe or such so big pipe I think is better. I have conceded that maybe what I want is two forges lets call the big one "Puff" and a new planned 8" X3/8 walled pipe forge and it's name is "Baby Puff" for blade making. so back to my questions (1) Which type burner is better Larry Zoeller's sidearm or frosty's T burner.....as stated I already have the making's for the sidearm but am willing to change my mind if you guys think one is better then the other (2) using the 300 too 350 cubic inches formula "puff" should do fine with 3 burners.....my question is if 3 is good is 5 better? I figure if all else fails shut two off...if needed turn them on.....I also think that with three pointing in from one side to get a swirl going adding two from the opposite angle will only compound a swirl? (3) I have a 8" ID 3/8 wall pipe by 13 inches long what would your recommendation be for minimum and maximum length be? I'm thinking maybe 10" (4) almost forgot soft firebrick and hard firebrick, I'm guessing the stove liner bricks sold at menards or lowes qualify as neither? Please remember Henry Fords words “Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” I can do this but wisdom is just as important as the will Thanks for your time once again Dave

Well first a little background on myself...51 year old machinist with a tad bit over 30 years experience, 45 years experience living on a farm fixing anything and everything that has ever broken, quite accomplished with welder, oxy acy torch and plasma cutters, fairly knowledgeable in heat treating and metrology, and a full 51 year's experience of sticking my foot into my mouth, so when a bunch of fellows and I were discussing the TV show "forged in fire" and the comment " if those jokers can do it how tough can it be?" came out of my mouth, well no one was surprised at all. So now I'm off and running building a forge, and after reading a whole lot of stuff on this site I have decided my original plans are all wrong.....But I'm going ahead with them full steam ahead so a couple questions and I already know they are quite silly but I'm asking very seriously. My plan for my forge centers around a piece of 13" dia 3/8th wall pipe which is 24 inches long with two inches of cerawool insulation inside it and 2 inch thick doors made out of the same pipe and capped with 3/8 steel plate on each end with 4" X 5" openings for pass though perhaps with a hinged cover that could close down to make this 2" X 5" (yes I know it is way overkill but I'm a big guy that likes big things and I already had this stuff laying in my scrap pile), after reading a lot I have decided I should make a barrier plate of insulation for the middle somewhere for when I only need the first 10 inches or so. So first question, Can a forge have too much fire in it I am planing on Larry Zoeller's sidearm-burner and after a couple weeks of trying to get ahold of him to buy three I decided it might be faster and a whole lot cheaper just to make them myself and when I saw how cheap the supplies were, well I got a tad bit carried away and now have enough for (6) 3/4 inch burners so am kind of planning on putting them in on 4 inch centers with 3 running down the length at 2 o'clock and two staggered between them at 10 o'clock with shut off valves for when the extras are not needed (which I am assuming will be always) my thoughts are for very quick heatup (and just for clarification I am only planning on using 5 of them the sixth one is in case I decide to give the little lady a hot foot someday) am i just being stupid with these plans or does it make sense at all? Second question is about ITC100 and rigidizer are these the same product? I am guessing not so does a person apply rigidizer fire it all up to cook it hard then apply ITC100? and personal opinion on ITC100 I see a lot of talk that it is the best thing since sliced bread and then just as much talk about cheaper just as good stuff any recommendations? I'm more than willing to pony up and pay for ITC if you all think it is worth it Thirdly does the brick floor just lie on top of the insulation or should I put some stand up legs in there for it to rest on?( keep in mind I have lots of that 3/8ths plate to use up) My plans are to start off making a couple letter openers to get some idea what I'm doing move onto a few knives, maybe a battle axe (they don't need to be pretty) then jump in with both feet and make a sword, all done by christmas 2017 ( I work in the aerospace industry and we are accustomed to long lead times) and just to throw a wrench in it all. they must all be folded (damascus) steel with brownie points if I make a billet large enough to machine a 1911 .45 pistol frame and slide. If this sounds like a lofty endeavour I could maybe show you the monstrosity I built after watching a few episodes of moonshiners or the 20 gallon brew kettle I built after watching some show on homebrewing on TV, and if the don't take that show Gold Rush off TV soon i'm gonna have to prove there is gold in my back 40... and lets not even think about deadliest catch or I may have to start designing a crabbing boat Sorry for the length of this, I do welcome any and all comments on my ideas and suggestions will be greatly appreciated, heck they might even get you a crab dinner some day Dave