Square Nail

Steve Sills -- In my time on this forum I have been rebuffed, rebuked and ridiculed and now slammed for something I did not know was an issue that thousands of others have done is the last straw! Please remove my name from the rolls of this site as I won't be back! To those of you that have helped m, Thank you! To all Good BYE!

8 hours ago, Mikey98118 said:

more quoting

I  tend to over think things but from what I gather the KISS principle is what I need to pay more attention to. Thanks Mike for the info!

One more question if you don't mind. When angling the burners into the forge, should they be directed to the back (hinge side)  of the forge or the front. If they point towards the back, that would mean that the plumbing end of the burner would be on the working side of the forge, which seems like it may tend to get in the way and if they were pointed the other way all the heat would be pointed to the open side. Am I guilty of overthinking again and just tilting at windmills or is this an issue?

On 9/16/2018 at 2:41 AM, Mikey98118 said:

STOP QUOTING everything

Well that make sense!

Great advice Mikey! 

Would it be beneficial to have a locking lug or clamp on the open side to cut down on even more of the exhaust leaks?

I've looked at Jay Hayes and Wayne Coes version and can't tell if there is a clamp or not

On 9/15/2018 at 9:50 PM, Mikey98118 said:

quoting removed

Thank you Sir! That helps a bunch!

Mikey interesting Idea! Sorry for the long response time but have had a medical issue to deal with and haven't done much of anything for the last month or two!!

A point of clarification on the 3 or 4 burners. I know that you couldn't run all at the same time but if they could be shut down individually so only one or two would run at the same time and be able to direct the heat to a smaller portion of your piece, would it make the times between heats quicker?

Also could you elaborate on how to join the two haves of the mufflers together?  

I have been making tomahawks and hatchets out of old end wrenches by reshaping one end of the wrench into the head leaving the rest as a handle which is why I need a wider mouth on the forge!

Just curious if anyone has made a farrier stile forge from a freon tank? I would like to cut the side open to have a long narrow opening  for forging tomahawk heads etc!  Maybe 6" deep X 4" high X 12" long" or something along there. Would it be better to have 3 or 4 burners so you could isolate one area of the piece you are working on or just a couple to heat the whole piece? Would it still be beneficial to angle the burners into the chamber  rather than straight down with the extra wide front opening?

5 minutes ago, John in Oly, WA said:

I'll see what I can do, but it wouldn't be a "how to" video. More like a "how I'm figuring out how I do". I have some 'round about, unorthodox ways of constructing things sometimes.

It wouldn't need to be a "How To" but the process itself would be fascinating and maybe give some of us fence sitting wannabes the drive to build their own!

How about doing a video while building this! I'm sure there are a bunch of us that would love to see these procedures!!!

Maybe! I drilled and tapped three T's today, with a hand drill and including tapping took about 15 minutes with perfect results on all three! 

In an effort to make the perfect Frosty burner, and because of my repeated failures at getting a tip perfectly centered in the "T" I decided to try and make a jig to make it fool proof and repeatable. What I ended up with was a 3/4 nipple and a slug of the correct diameter to fit inside the nipple and then drill a through hole all the way through the slug. (Pictures to follow). I did this with the taps also. Shown below are the completed pieces. The one on the left has the slug welded to the nipple and a 21/64 hole drilled the length of the slug. I have a friend with a lathe that makes short work of the machine work. The two on the right are the taps. Again the nipple and slugs were machined to the correct tolerances. For me the inside of the nipples were machined to .83 and the slugs to .82. Then the top of the slugs were drilled and tapped to accept a 3/8 X 1 1/2 bolt to use to turn the slug when complete. The bottom of the slug was drilled to accept the taps one for 1/8 NPT and one for the size of your mag tip. Then a couple of 1/4 X 1/4 set screws to hold in the taps. 

Very simple to use, even with a hand drill you get perfectly centered holes every time.

This one shows the drill slug all the way in place.

This one shows the slug pulled back a ways to show how it automatically centers the hole  with no chance for the bit to wander!

This one shows the tap in place.

On 8/19/2017 at 4:21 AM, Mikey98118 said:

Square Mail,

Thanks for including building instructions. I look forward to lots of smiths choosing to build your version of Mongo burners. As I never felt that the original Mongo burners were worth looking into, the joke is on me

Just for the record, this wan't my post. I was just asking the question at the end of the quote.

On 8/16/2017 at 3:49 PM, blacksmith-450 said:

My Mongo Burner

I started with the recipe of the mongo burner found on the WEB and adapted it to a 3/4 format.

Parts List :

• 3/4 to 1 inch reducer
• 3/4 X 8 inches nipple
• 3/4 to 3/4 connector
• 3/4 cap
• 1/8 NPT nipple 2 or 3 inches
• 2 X Fitting 1/4 NPT 1/4 tube
• Mig Tip .023 (brass welded on fitting)

I drilled 4 X 1/2 inch holes at 1/2 inch from the threads.

When I had a neutral flame, I welded the 1/8 nipple in place rather than using a set screw... yes, I lose the possibility of adjusting it but.... ?  If my flame is steady, why play with it ???

Just curious if it would be feasible to thread the 1/8 NPT nipple the length of the nipple and use that as the adjustment instead of a set screw? Thread the cap and screw it in or out as needed! 

21 hours ago, Savage said:

Ok i will look itno his design once i find it, hopefully my area stocks the extra parts i need. I have a drill thats broken so if i can get it to work some how then thatll be good but im not good at all at drilling straight holes lol

try Mc-master Carr supply

Having just finished building my first forge, and going through the same questions, all I can say is check with Wayne Coe for all your insulation needs for your forge! He is on this site and has his own pages also I was totally happy with the quality of material and shipping time. Price was very reasonable also!

12 hours ago, Frosty said:

Looks good. Good suggestion MIke, I'll be remembering it. It's a good example of obvious logic that never crossed my radar. Or as I often call em a Head Slapping moment.

Frosty The Lucky.

Me too Frosty!

On 8/3/2017 at 0:02 PM, Mikey98118 said:

I'm hoping that the photo will be something of a revelation to other folks, about how big differences don't always need big changes; looking forward to seeing the next photo.

The first pic is a cold start, followed by about two minutes after start when I put the steel in, the third pic is about 4 minutes into the burn with the last of the steel after just four minutes in the forge! Mike I would say your suggestion was spot on!

Pretty or not, it works for me! Thanks everyone for all the help!

The forge is outside so will take pics tonight when it isn't so bright out! Thanks again!

1 hour ago, Mikey98118 said:

Looking at the one clear flame photo, I would make one last helpful change. Move the front burner, that has a lightly reducing flame to the back of the forge, and move the back burner that has a neutral flame to the front of the forge. This allows more distance for the secondary flame to burn off, and insures that the fuel that didn't burn, must pass in front of a neutral flame before it exits the forge. Better results all the way around for a small additional effort, yes?

Thank you Mike! Looks much better with that change!

Of course we're good Frosty! Thanks!

8 hours ago, Frosty said:

You should experiment till it performs like you need or it won't. I wouldn't be making changes to the burners till I found out it's high and low operating range. 

Is there a reason you want to run it at such a low pressure? Sure it's nice to have a low flame velocity but that's only to keep it in the forge longer.

The burners I've been running for what 15+ years in the shop forge run around 9psi at the low end and melt hard fire brick at about 17psi. It blows serious dragon's breath, you do not work at it in short sleeves. Those are old burners in an old forge all soon to be retired and I don't hold it out as something to try for. I've never even tried to make a burner run at such low pressure, maybe 7-8 at the low end.

You guys have to STOP WORRYING ABOUT PSI. The ONLY reason I have a gauge on my forges is so I can repeat forge temperature and conditions easily, NO OTHER REASON. It makes no difference what so ever what psi someone elses burners work well under. THE ONLY PSI that matters is the one that makes YOUR burners work properly.

I'm not dumping on you and I'm more than happy to help you out but your last few questions aren't something I'm into. Mike tunes burners by moving the flare, not me. Worse you keep coming back to pressure and that's up to you to find, I have nothing to tell you about it. psig It doesn't matter, you'd be making things at the anvil long ago if there wasn't a gauge at all. How about taking it off?

Frosty The Lucky.

 

My Humble apology Frosty, I guess I was laboring under a false impression. Many threads seem to be talking about the "perfect flame", which may or may not be possible and the attempts people make to get there, and I assumed when you mention trimming the mig tip it was to the same end. Some how this equated to dragon breath being bad and not very desirable. Thus backing down the pressure to reduce it. Not that there was any desire to run a low pressure rig. Having never seen a T burner forge in operation and seeing the nature of the beast, and lacking the experience to know better, I was trying to attain the unattainable.  Thanks for your help, and rest assured there will be no more stupid questions from me!

14 minutes ago, Frosty said:

Still a LITTLE rich maybe, MAYBE. I'm thinking you need to close up the openings some, it should be getting hotter but 8 minutes isn't that much time with two big openings like that. Let it get hot before putting the steel in, that'll give you a better idea of time to working temp. You aren't going to start the forge for every piece are you?

Looking good. My Kastolite has a good HOT 20 hrs. on it and the dragon's breath is still orange though not as much as when it was new.

Frosty The Lucky.

The back is closed and the front is about 4" square. Good point about starting hot! I'm at 5 psi should I amp it up a bit?

After adjusting the burner's mig tip in inincrements of 1/32" this is where I ended up. I am running at 5 psi.

The piece of steel is 5/16 X 2 X 8

after 3 minutes

after 6 minutes

after 7 minutes

after 8 minutes

Frosty I have played around with the burners some more and after pausing to think of where I started and what I've done, with what you said, decided to reverse the direction I had moved the flares. Results are a much improved flame and was able to increase to 5 psi with no more dragon breath than with 2 psi. with both burners going and much diminished dragon breath with just 1 burner. I think one final adjustment tomorrow when it is cool enough to handle will hit about as good as I get. I heated a chunk of leaf spring to workable color in about five minutes from start up. Not being a 100% sure of what color is need for welding i was at what i would call yellow in less than 10 minutes. Will get a couple more pics tomorrow! 

4 minutes ago, Frosty said:

You're in dry country 24 hrs. should do the trick.

361 cu/in is in the upper limits for a single 3/4" burner, 2 are serious overkill even with the length. There's where the dragon's breath is coming from, there just isn't room in the forge for all that fire. 

Try getting it HOT then turning off one burner. One end will be hotter than the other but you can only work on so much at a time and when you need full length heat light the other one.

It's going to be a screaming HOT forge.

Frosty The Lucky.

Thank you sir! I will post the results as I try them!