mcraigl

Alan, a little off topic here, but where in Northern California are you located at? CBA is a great organization, and there are a fair number of good folks in the northern part of the state as well as southern oregon.

Looks like I got some readin' to do. Nice link, mucho appreciated.

"Jet Noise! The sound of Freedom". You got that right. My office is directly under RW14 at Kingsley Field. The sound of those F-15's annoy a lot of folks around the office. We're one of two remaining F-15 aerial combat schools and soon to be the last. The other one in florida I think is converting to F-22's so our daily sorties are going to double. Anyway, I reflect on the sacrifice and service of our military every time I hear them. And it's impossible for me to not look up and give silent thanks to those boys. I got to spend 5 hours in their simulator one day and I can tell you they are very busy when push comes to shove. It ain't like "top gun" at all. Gives me goosebumps I tell ya. No sweeter sound than the sound of freedom.

Brian,
I know the feeling well. My son is an Intelligence Spec. 3rd class and just returned from a 6 month cruise aboard USS Abraham Lincoln. He's with VAQ-131 Lancers, which is part of CVW2 (Carrier Air Wing 2). He recently earned his enlisted aviation warfare specialist quals and also serves on the flight deck when needed. He thinks he might get sent to Iraq or Afganistan on an "augmentation billet". I pray that they keep him "on the rock" 'til their next deployment. I worry less when I think about the "company my son keeps" while depoyed. Check the photo, you can't touch this from air, surface, or subsurface (Carrier group from last cruise). The Lincoln (or any of our carriers for that matter) is about the safest place to be durring combat ops. What ship is your son serving on? We'll include him in our prayers.

All good advice so far. One thing I'd add, since it's my particular ailment/problem. I sweat. All I've got to do is think about doing something physical and I start to sweat. In order to sweat, you have to have excess salts (aka electrolytes)in your tissues. Once your salts are gone, you no longer sweat. All you do is urinate, and no amount of water will rectify the situation. Your entire system works on osmotic potential across membranes, and it relies on one side having a higher concentration of salts than the other in order for the water to move the right direction across the membrane.

I have to pre-hydrate, then continue to hydrate and supplement my electrolyte levels. I have a couple of friends who are internal medicine Dr.'s and also marathon runners. When I worked construction in Nv., I'd get heat exhaustion nearly every day in the summer while sheeting floors or roofs, all while draining a 3gal. Gott water cooler by myself ever day. Well Dr.C. prescribed some salt pills basically, and wow what a difference they made. Unfortuneately, they are no longer available for some reason. Now I use a product called Emergen-C. It's a powder in a little packet like cool-aid. It has a lot of electrolytes, without all the sugar in gatoraide and similar products. Anyway, my advice is to make sure you don't run out of electrolytes, or all the extra hydration will do you no good.

Frank,
Check out the responses to my recent post... There are four or five different animal head BP's suggested there.

http://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1235

Now, if you come up with a way of forging an Albacore Tuna, I'm real interested in that...

Yea, it was around 94 last saturday and Mike-hr was in his shop with BOTH forges running (Gas and Coal). I know from experience that working between those two beasts when the weather is cooler is still hot work. Imagine he dripped several gallons that day...

A little bout myself. Worked for a while as a carpenter building custom homes in Nevada while putting myself through college. Then ran the metal shop in a large glass and window business for a few years. That's where I came to love TIG and MIG welding (though to this date all i've ever used a TIG on is alu. and ss).
After college I moved to Oregon to work in the Natural Resources field. Here I met my buddy and mentor Mike-hr through a mutual hunting fishing friend. I've been hanging around his shop for a couple of years and when he became and "official" instructor for the Cal. Blacksmith's Assoc. I figured I ought to formalize my instruction a bit.
Now I pretty much figure Mike knows he's created a monster. Here's a guy who's making a living at this stuff, spending umpteen hours a day in his shop and I wan't to come over after I get off work. He doesn't bat an eye, and I appreciate that. the last thing I want to do after sitting in front of a computer all day is come home and teach some dip how to do what I do at work.
I use to think I had a pretty good eye for art, and what is aesthetic. Did a lot of pencil work and charcoals. I feel as though i've lost it more than a little, as now I'm pretty much a number cruncher. Not very "organic" as my mentor would say.
I tend to get bored with hobbies pretty fast, and my hope and belief is that this BS'ing will be great because there's so many facets of it. If I get tired of making steak turners I can fool around with blades for a while, or maybe some architectural pieces, etc. One of the things I really dig about BSing in that you make your own tools. I was pretty into woodwork and furnature in particular when i was in college, but could never afford good tools. Now all it takes is some instruction, and time and I can build whatever I need for the most part.
Another thing I really like is the wide demographic diversity of BSing. I've met super conservative fabricator types, to very hippie liberal artsy types, men, women, and everything in between (cons. and liberal that is). And they all seem to get along because they all share the same passion. I'm passionate about fishing too, but some of my best buddies that I've known for a long time won't tell me what they used or where they fished last saturday. Completely different than pretty much all the folks I've met through this art. everyone I've come in contact with are very willing to not only tell, but demonstrate their techniques or ideas. I can't believe how much I've learned from this forum in just the short couple of months I've been lurking. Thank you all for taking the time to help us newbies out. If any of you are ever in southern oregon, drop me a line. My shop's not much to show off, but it'd be a good excuse to go fishing:)

McRaigl

Chuck, you know it's like a lot of other arts. When you don't know nothin', you don't notice nothin'. Something I used to hear from a couple of Scandinavian master carpenters I labored for in my youth. Now that I know just a little bit more than nothin' I really get more and more out of "lessons" or just watching an experienced smith work. At first all you notice is a guy hitting a piece of iron with a hammer. Then you notice what color it was when it came out and went back into the forge. Next time you notice his stance with the anvil (sometimes I swear he's makin' love to that thing :-). Another time you notice the angle of the hammer in relation to the hot steel in relation to the anvil face. I've got a list of mental notes of "moves" that I want to watch some guys make. For instance, simply drawing a point for a steak turner. At the hammer in, I watched a couple of guys do the whole thing in one or "maybe" two heats. I can burn up a good three, four, even five heats to pull a satisfactory tapered point on a piece of 3/8 or 1/2 square. 'Course Mike does it for a living so is generally pretty happy to instruct by the time I get there as he's already put in a 10+hr day at the forge or out in the sun. Though he did make me a slot chisel and two hammer eye drifts while I was forging the head for the tomahawk (dang it I didn't get to watch). Anyway, gotta get ready to go on vacation now. Sorry for my long posts, not to mention some of the worlds longest paragraphs (I didn't major in english:-). It's a blessing and a curse to be able to type 60 words per minute.

Now that is COOL! Wow, I'd love to run across one of those. 'Course I'd have to build a much larger bench to mount it on than any of my existing ones, but it'd be just the impetus I'd need to git 'er done. I've never seen a vise like that before. I like it. (can ya tell?)

Rich,
Come on man...... Now you're killing me... Not going to tell me what happens??? Xxxx, I guess I'll have to wait a couple of weeks to find out on my own. I am going to look into those scotch brite pad type discs. I really didn't want to remove any more material than absolutely necessary so was avoiding the more aggresive abrasives. Sounds like it might be just the ticket, along with an air die grinder so I have variable speed vs. the rotozip (aka electric die grinder) which just has a speed of about 25,000.

If you get Mike to assist you with this, I would like you to take careful notes from the time you arrive, to the time you leave, and write down any "other" tricks, ideas, or knowledge you gain from visiting his shop and watching him work with metal. Try to keep it less than a doctorial thesis.

Glenn, how well do you know Mike? If you know him well, then you already knew that what you just asked of me is paradoxical. Or maybe an oxymoron. IF I took careful, detailed notes from the time I arrived at say around 6pm til the time I usually leave say around 12am, the document would be at least twice as long as my actual master's thesis was, and would certainly be approaching the length of several doctoral dissertations I've reviewed. Unfortuneately being so new to the BS'ing scene I probably don't recognize all the really cool methods/tools/techniques that he has or uses that would be of interest to you. I'm generally fascinated from the time I arrive to the time I leave by just about everything BS and general fabrication related. But having said all that, I'll see what I can do...

ML

Glenn,
Do you think this is enough, and good enough pix for a blue print? (I pretty much posted all the pix I took in this post) If so, I'd be more than willing to write it up, though I hardly feel qualified to tell anyone here how to do something... If you think we need more "action" shots maybe I'll have to bribe Mike-hr into letting me invade his shop again in a couple of weeks when I get back from vacation. He needs more practice taking photos anyway so it probably wouldn't be that tough to talk him into (along with the requisit liquid refreshment :-) Not sure I'd want to subject myself to all that polishing again though, that was more work than I thought it would be...

Chuck, thanks for the encouragement and advice. I really appreciate how freely the old salts give good advice here, especially since I'm so new to the forum. To that end, if I ever come across as a snot nosed, know it all kid I'd appreciate it if someone let me know (or you could let Mike-hr know and he'd straighten me out!) Mike-hr is definately first class, and you're right he won't let me go too far wrong. He showed me the "junk yard heat treating" when we were making the butcher hardie. We quenched in veg. oil first, then moved to water. Also used a small piece of cutoff to perfect our tempering temp. Pretty interesting stuff.

Thanks again for all the comments folks. I'm actually really happy with how this 'hawk turned out. Most of my first time projects really look like they were my first time, and I couldn't really be happier with how this one turned out. Almost don't want to make another one 'cause it might not turn out as nice :-)
McRaigl

Thanks Jens. Yea, and look at the beautiful Pedinghaus.... Wish I had one of those in my shop!!! So where does a guy get camilla oil? Never heard of it before, though I've been using marvel for a variety of things forever.

Nolan, yea I'm with you on "polishing something that will be used". It started off with an overnight bath in vinegar and when I wire brushed the remaining scale off, there were virtually NO HAMMER MARKS. Gotta be a first on any of my projects. The only hammer mark is on the bottom of the eye I had a double strike with the slot punch. Anyway, so I figured what the heck and started in on the flat sides of the blade with my 1" belt sander and 220 grit. Once I saw that it "wanted to be polished", I figured what the heck and went for it. It's my first one, and will probably mostly be a conversation / study piece for a while.

Jens, I've actually got a couple of angle grinders but all the flapper wheels I've got are 60 grit and I was a little afraid of putting scratches in that would require even more effort to get out. I forgot to mention in the original post that I was a retard and pretty much completely polished it BEFORE I heat treated so I got to go through the whole process TWICE! I've seen those scotch brite looking pads, guess I'll buy one just to see how they work. Everything a guy can add to his arsenal to make things go easier... You're right about Mike-HR. He's as good as they come, and a very patient willing teacher. He's created a monster, and I think he's starting to realize how big of a pain in the butt I really am! All these questions and stuff.... I was really intimidated by his power hammer the first time or two I used it, but when we made that butcher hardie that we presented on the tue. night blue prints I fell in love. That axle shaft is really tuff stuff and by hand hammer I'm pretty sure I'd have made a career out of that one tool! So camilla and marvel mystery are food safe? Not that I'll be cutting up my steak with this thing (though you easily could), but I've got a couple of nagging knife ideas right now that I'm going to try when I get back from vacation if I can talk Mike-hr out of some more spud-chain....

Tyler,
what do you mean about a "convex grind on choppers"? I've never had any "official" instruction in blades. In fact, I think I really would like to buy one of JPH's books, and/or some other bladesmithing books since I've read everything else my wife already bought me. In college I competed in lumberjack competitions and pretty much ground this 'hawk just as I ground our heavy hit and speed axe's. Except mayber creating a little bit larger "margin" on the edge than on a comp axe. Actually I guess I'd say it's ground exactly as our throwing axes were ground. As ground now it's pretty much a "flat", neither concave or convex. Does the convex work better? Or safer? Or? I could probably be convince of either of those now that I think about it.

Thanks to all for the comments. Next one is going to be made from the tie rod off a 1-ton pickup I think...

Here's some pix of the creation process so you can see the upset and eye creation steps.

Mike-hr asked me to post pix of my first hawk to the existing thread, but that one has gotten a little long so I thought I'd start a new one. Anyway, I made this out of a new RR spike. I upset it to 3.5" long, then started the eye with a slot punch, finished with drifts, then I forged the blade section on Mike's power hammer with the incline dies in it. I polished it with little flapper wheels of assorted grits in my roto-zip (don't have a pneumatic die grinder yet) and with the dremel tool. then I buffed/polished. the handle is make from a broken shovel handle. I'm pretty happy with it. In fact several folks have asked me if it's a throwin' 'hawk and I've told 'em heck no. It's sort of like a brand new truck, I'm afraid to drive it through the brush until it's got it's first scratches... Some of you guys do amazing work and I'd appreciate any pointers on polishing irregular surfaces. I burned up an easy $25 worth of flapper wheels (don't think their designed for roto-zip rpm's even though they say they are). Also the buffing compound / felt thing is very very time consuming... Also, any good ideas for finishing that will help delay the onset of rust? Any other comments suggestions are also appreciated...

Thanks,
McRaigl

I realized that I wasn't using all of my resources on this so I emailed a couple of my friends that are physicians and asked them for reference material also. Unfortuneately I'm going on vacation for a while and won't be back to it until the middle of July. I'm more and more interested in the half life of heavy metals in our body. Hoping to have some good info to report back in a bit.

ML

Right on Jens. That's pretty nice. I've got to try the pattern weling / damascus thing once I get my basic skills up a little more. Pretty busy makeing hardies, chisels, tongs and steak turners right now. I did through a couple of steak turners in vinegar and WOW, it really knocks the scale off them. Since I don't have my wire wheel set up yet, and forgot to take them to Mike-hr's.

Thanks everyone. I think we've convinced this guy that drinking a glass of milk isn't going to be enough. Woody, I think he's going to try sitting on the popsickle after drinking the milk... Just kidding. In all seriousness, as Ellen said, I too have "just got the job done" a few times. I have always "tried" to be upwind or have a fan but there's been a few times where that all just didn't work out. It won't ever happen again. I'll try to compile a list of links and maybe a summary of info. For instance one of the things I'm really interested in (partly because I have inhaled some in the past), is what are the cumulative effects if it is cumulative (I think most heavey metal type stuff is), and what's it's half life in the body etc. Again, thanks for the info.
Mike

Does anyone have a link to an "official" description of the negative effects of welding galvanized? A guy on another forum is convinced that if he just drinks a big glass of milk after welding it, that he'll be OK. He's building boat blinds for duckhunting, and a lot of other guys on that forum do the same thing. I'll keep searching the web too, and post up what I find out.

ML

Could someone post of picture of a blade or something that's been done in this way for me? Not sure what it looks like.

So you're saying that the threads are just a standard fine bolt thread? That'd be good news. I'll stop at Fastenal on lunch today and get one. They might even have a chuck for that matter.

McRaigl

Anybody got a good lead on where to get a 1/2" drill chuck with a 1/2"x20 arbor that will fit in my post drill? I found a bunch of chucks on mscdirect, but all the arbors I could find had a morse taper on one end or the other...

McRaigl