Quenchcrack

GP fischer, Welcome to Iforgeiron. This is a resource rich site with a lot of experienced smiths to help. Please feel free to ask any questions you may have. We will try to get you the best information possible. Please go to the User Control Panel (CP) and fill in your location, experience etc. It helps us direct you to local smiths.

Thanks from me too. I always wondered about that.

We appear to beconfusing "asking dumb questions" with "giving nonsense answers" again. Nobody has advocated any kind of restrictions on asking questions. When a new person (I detest the terms "noob" or "newbie"; they are condecending) asks a question, they are seeking to understand our world; we want to make reasonable effort to give them good information. Flippant, ranting or just wrong answers are dangerous. They can destroy the enthusiasm of new smiths and at worst, they can lead to physical harm. I am frankly amazed this thread went on so long. Mostly, we appear to agree but from slightly differning perspectives. That's good. Diversity is what makes life interesting. We just need to be cognizant of the impact of what we post when a new person is asking questions. Maybe we can all be part of the vetting process and when we read a questionable post, we can sic Steve on them. Sorry, just kidding.

If the chemistry Markb posted is what you have, it is air hardening. It will also need a much higher and longer temperature to get into a useful range. That is an M1 high speed steel with a LOT of molybdenum and that will not temper easily. 4 hours at 1075F will get you a Rc of 62. Technically, this is harder than woodpecker lips.

The pattern kinda reminds me of some of the shots from the Hubble Space telescope.

It is regretable that most companies that make tool steels have created brand names for what are really the standard AISI tool steel chemistries. I could not find bethlehem Super 8 (are you sure this is not a cheap motel?) but if it is a water hardening grade, it would have about 1% carbon, .20 manganese, and about .20 silicon. Having no other significant alloys to retard the tempering reaction, it would temper fast. This means you want to start with a low temperature first. For a knife blade, I am thinking you would probably want a hardness of about 55Rc. Heat to just non-magnetic, water quench, temper at about 600F or just past a light blue/gray color. If you want lower hardness, temper at 700F. For Higher hardness, temper at 500F. A second temper at the same or slightly higher is advised to improve toughness. Be advised that water quenching a water hardening steel with a very thin cross section might crack it. I have hardened thin W1 blades by using compressed air or even oil very successfully.

Last John Wayne, have you seen a doctor about the cause of your shaking? There is something called Benign Essential Tremor that can cause your hands to shake. It is aggravating but not fatal. I suffer from it and had to give up watercolor and pencil art because of it. It is treatable but only up to a point. Go see your doctor to see if he can help you.

It kinda looks like we have several topics all competing for attention here. My original post meant to address irresponsible answers to legitimate questions. It did not suggest that we should not ask questions as one response implied; questions are the energy that propels this forum. It is the nonsense replies that pose the threat. The posting of questions in the wrong place is probably unavoidable until the new people get accustomed to this forum. Sorry, Steve, more work for you, I'm afraid. As far as editing our own posts go, this is something we can all do to help reduce Steves workload. Read your post before you hit "submit reply". Then read it again on the forum. I have edited some posts two or three times to correct errors and tone down my choice of words. We can take responsibility for the surpression of misinformation WITHOUT it being a burden to the Moderators. Each of us can take care of our own posts first and address the nonsense with a firm, but civil, response when we see it.

Glenn, I will make the necessary changes, thanks. That's one small step, though. I am still not sure what we can do as a group to minimize mis-information. I guess we just need to be vigilant and challenge the nonsense when we see it. But politely.

I guess an anvil is not a shape but a function. Whatever you are using as an anvil is, indeed, an anvil. I had two blocks of what is called cobble plate from when I worked in a steel mill. This was steel that got partially rolled flat and something went wrong. They cut the plate out of the mill and scrapped it. My two blocks are 4"x6"x12" or 107 lbs. They are also 4130 Alloy Steel. I sold one to a young bladesmith in Memphis for $35 several years ago. I hope he appreciates the good deal he got. I still have the other one. I will probably keep this one but who knows.

Heat to about 500F, wire brush until all the scale is gone and it will turn blue all by itself. Use oil or wax to protect it. This is an oxide coating and very thin; it can be easily scratched off.

I like JimBob's idea of using real names and a place in our biography where we can put our education and experience. That is clearly the easiest way to check someone's credibility. Unless they lie about it on the bio. Well, nothing is perfect. Glenn, I want to be the first to revert back to my real name please: Robert K. Nichols

Well, I told you the post could earn me some enemies! Listen, any person, young or old, can come to this site and ask a question. Someone will give them an answer, maybe several people will give answers. If you don't know the answer to the question you just asked, how do you sort out the legitimate answer from the nonsense? Don't we have some personal responsibility to try to share correct information? If the Internet just a big crapshoot where you can find fact and fiction on any given topic, what is going to set this site apart from the rest? I am not advocating we use forum goons to police the site and remove spurious posts, but there must be some way of identifying a credible source. Do we even begin to think of establishing some sort of hierarchy with distinguishing marks in the user name? More ideas needed here.....

At the risk of making enemies of a lot of people, I would like to suggest a few ideas to keep the transfer of mis-information to a minimum.
1. If you have no experience or expertise in particular topic, please listen first. I think we all get tired of the posts that begin "well i dont know anything about this but i heard...."
2. Please be aware there are a LOT of highly experienced, professional metalworking people who visit here. They can spot BS a mile away.
3. If you post BS, expect to be politely challenged almost immediately. Assuming a humble posture and admitting your ignorance will get you more respect than trying to prove you are right when we all know you are wrong.
4. Consider the possibility that the old man who filled your head full of mis-information was just yanking your chain for the shear fun of it. Maybe he wasn't a blacksmith after all.
5. We have several graduate metallurgical engineers who post here and more than a few folks who have learned enough without the degree to practice as a metallurgist. We would all be happy to explain some of the mysteries of metals. Please give us the chance to do that before you start in with item #1 above.
6. The goal of this forum is to transfer REAL information from those who have it to those who need it. If you don't have it, we don't need it.
7. While everyone on this forum deserves respect, plan to earn a littl bit of it yourself. In turn show some respect to the old timers who helped make this board the credible source for good information.
8. Most of us want to help newcomers. Forgive us if we are a bit skeptical of a young person with no metalworking experience jumping in and telling us he wants to make a sword as his first project. Some of us have been smithing for years and would not tackle a sword. Listen to the voices of experience; we only want to give you advise that will keep you safe and help you learn.
9. Nothing is more educational than a good debate. Feel free to challenge any ideas you read here but make sure you keep it civil and you know what you're talking about.

OK, end of rant. Any one else want to add to the list? Keep it polite, please.

My first anvil was a 12" section of light crane rail. I machined the top flat, ground a horn on it and torch cut the feet in. I called my Ballerina. Every time I hit it, it would dance. Yep, a chunk of track will do but the first time you forge on an anvil with some mass to it, you begin to appreciate a "real" anvil.

In the event you actually do get some aluminum melted, sprinkle in a few teaspoons of Potassium Chloride, the salt substitute you can buy at the grocery store. It will scavange the dissolved gases in the molten aluminum and reduce the pin holes when the metal solidifies. I assume you will do this outside? If not, do not mess with the KCl, it will form chlorine gas and that is not a good thing to do inside. Oh, and have you ever seen what happens when you pour molten aluminum into a crucible or mold that has a bit of moisture trapped inside? Ever seen Old Faithful? Learn about safety FIRST.

OUCH! those have got to be too hot to hold onto when actually being smoked! I smoked conventional pipes for years and one has to learn how to gently draw the pipe or even wood or clay will become very hot.

Steve,
How do you establish the provenance for the origin of the nickel in the blade? Since meteoric origins are highly unique the blade should command a premium price just to offset the cost of raw materials. The skillful incorporation of celestial materials should add even more but how do you prove it is of celestial origins?

New Guy, yep they look cheap enough that beginners could actually afford one. As for locally made products, well, there just aren't any domestically produced hand crank blowers made any more. That is the problem.

Has anyone noticed that the cameras we have today take photos with the background in perfect focus and the subject just out of focus. Woo Hoo is that progress or what?!

I would suggest you visit BP 0020 and do a bit of reading on spark testing. It is not as easy as most of us would believe.

Look what I found: 404 link removed
Too bad somebody couldn't get an import license and buy a hundred of these things and take orders for them. Hmmmmm.....?

There are a lot of new electric blowers, AC and DC but I have yet to find a good HAND crank blower less than about 60 years old. I am told Buffalo or Champion made some blowers to bring fresh air into basement Fallout Shelters in the 50's and 60's but I have yet to see one for sale.

An arrowhead is just a leaf shape with hammer marks to make it look knapped. Good for keyrings and necklaces. Small horse shoes are popular with kids.

Uh...The Metal...around here "Black Steel" is just steel at room temperature. Yep, pretty cool, all right. You go right ahead and pound on that "Black Steel" and when it cracks in half, come back and tell us all why. I am glad you have an experienced mentor to guide you through this project. I would fear for your safety without him.